Front Sight Training fee "Restructing" Jan 22

[Yung]

I have wondered more than once why they don't go to Gunsite instead. Any other Arizonans know?

AzCDL is very disappointed to announce that the 2022 Front Sight trip has been cancelled.

AzCDL has just become aware of some very unfortunate policy changes initiated by Dr. Piazza at Front Sight which necessitates the cancellation of this year's trip. These changes include substantial fees for classes that were previously free to Front Sight members, daily facility usage fees, monthly payments required to maintain previously purchased memberships, and a requirement to purchase all ammunition from Front Sight. The policy changes have made our annual trip prohibitively expensive.

Since these changes are completely beyond our control, we do not know when or if another trip will become feasible in the future. Questions and concerns should be addressed directly to Front Sight <info@frontsight.com>.

If you have already made hotel reservations or other travel arrangements, be sure to cancel those to avoid any penalties or lost deposits.

[Duelist]

I have wondered more than once why they don't go to Gunsite instead. Any other Arizonans know?

No idea. Gunsite is nice, and actually in AZ.

[HCM]

Yikes. Long time Front Sight Training member roasts the "restructuring" announced Jan '22 by the founder, Ignatius Piazza.

https://static.one-armed-man.com/202...-response.html

Closing summary:

"Translation: Those fabulous “paper” assets I said I transferred to you are worth nothing — not even the 1/100th of a cent you get from a supermarket coupon — so that’s exactly what you will receive in exchange for supporting Front Sight for months or years. Sorry, not sorry, sucker!

You have spent years making Front Sight memberships seem too good to be true. I presumed they were when I gave you money, but I tried to give you money in proportion to the value I thought I was getting. Therefore, I don’t feel cheated but I do feel disappointed.

As disappointed as I am, I am not surprised. I always figured that this Ponzi scheme had to end sometime, and for the most part I acted on that assumption."

Being relatively new to firearms training, I wasn't familiar with this, ah, operation. Reading reviews of the place was pretty eye-opening.

*Apologies for the typo in the title. Moar coffee required.

I had a creepy weird vibe from them from the start, their long time ties to the Scientology Cult put them on my NFE list decades ago...

https://la.indymedia.org/news/2009/09/230598.php

http://lermanet.org/scientologyscand...rthsecret.html

TLDR It was alleged that Ignatius Piazza is a hard core Scientologist was using the Front Sight Firearms Training Institute as his personal Scientology recruiting ground, cash generator, and to further the ultimate goals and presence of Scientology.

[RancidSumo]

I received a "lifetime membership" as a high school graduation gift and went with my dad and some of his friends back around 2010. He'd gone the year before and said in just that time the class was scaled back with several parts being moved into the new "higher-level" courses (that were not included in the lifetime memberships everyone already had).

I really enjoyed the trip and time spent with my dad, but I've never been back. It was clearly a scam with mandatory lunch """trainings""" that were really sales pitches. Also didn't give much confidence when they were teaching grips that went out of favor before I was born. They weren't too happy when I refused to shoot with something called a "baby's butt" grip but still managed to ace their test (not bragging - I am not a skilled shooter by the standards of this forum so read this as a reflection on their expectations and not on my skill).

For a couple years after I'd get multiple calls per week asking me to upgrade to the super-diamond-platinum-plus-star membership they just released until I called their sales people and told them they wouldn't be getting a dime from me.

Anyway, long way of saying I'm surprised they are still in business but not surprised to see a scandal.

[HCM]

https://pvtimes.com/news/mega-gun-ra...7JPmoOn0x1fseY

Mega gun range near Pahrump under fire for ‘duping’ members

[RevolverRob]

I received a "lifetime membership" as a high school graduation gift and went with my dad and some of his friends back around 2010. He'd gone the year before and said in just that time the class was scaled back with several parts being moved into the new "higher-level" courses (that were not included in the lifetime memberships everyone already had).

If that's the case (and I'm not doubting you) and Piazza is a hardcore Scientologist - that is a play straight out of the L. Ron Hubbard School of Economics.

Hubbard regularly rewrote/reworked the higher level Scientology course work to move stuff from lower levels to upper levels with the goal of getting people to spend more money. To find out about Xenu from the Scientologists costs like $64,000. Or you know...free on Wikipedia.

Anyways, I never heard anything positive about Front Sight, so I never paid much attention to their offerings. If folks have learned from them and had good benefits, that's excellent and I'm glad.

[Lester Polfus]

Some people learn from the time they bought Sea Monkeys out of the back of the Batman comic book, some people don’t.

[RancidSumo]

Some people learn from the time they bought Sea Monkeys out of the back of the Batman comic book, some people don’t.

Fortunately, I learned this lesson with OPM.

[RJ]

I was curious enough to go look at a map of the area...Maybe it's just me but it doesn't look all that big? For a place that's been in development for 20 years...I don't see any hotels, or swimming pools...just an expansive outdoor range with multiple bays, a rifle range, and a central club house/facility.




I hit the trip advisor link, 160+ reviews all outstanding, it seems. The pictures of the various student's experiences are interesting.

Yeah, bottom line it seems there are probably better training options out there than with this guy. And his current customers seem none too happy with the new fees.

[jetfire]

No idea. Gunsite is nice, and actually in AZ.

Likely because Gunsite, as a successful, thriving business, costs money to attend. I'd be willing to bet that Front Sight did some kind of hand-waving about "free training" or something like that.