Originally Posted by TGS
I haven’t seen many but I have seen a few FTFeeds and mor fail to lock backs out of them.
Every time I point that out it’s met with the same comment.
The world is a stupid place and it’s moving in the direction of the stupid. I see this in every aspect of the world today.
Why do you think your sample size holds more weight than what the guy who posted this thread has documented with his personal gun? Or what agencies like USMS or LASD see in the guns that led them to adopt them?
People being unable to let go of their own biases and look at data for what it is, that’s a big part of why the world is a stupid place.
My sample size is more guns than OP’s one gun and I’ve seen failures. That’s irrelevant because you don’t want to hear it.
Aside from a light trigger, what does a 2011 bring to the table?
Nothing.
See this https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....r-1911-Running 131 page thread about keeping 1911s running that’s been on the first two pages for almost three years? All of that still applies to the 2011. That’s data. People going back to that is a fine example of the state of the world.
I see a bunch of them and my first question is whether reliability refers to just the pistol, or the pistol and the magazine.
I am curious as to exactly what those LE agencies saw that caused them to adopt the Staccato. I always assumed it was "wanted a 2011, and got someone else to pay for it." I have a P, worked over by Ed Cameron. I haven't shot it enough yet, but every time I do, I come away wondering what is so special about the Staccato compared to a Glock/Walther/M&P/320 to justify 4 times the price and all the magazine hassles.
Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.
FWIW - these things work really well. You still need to q-tip the outer edge when cleaning/replacing it as it doesn't perfectly cover the lens (there's a tiny tiny gap around the edges as you'd probably expect), but it certainly makes maintenance and lens cleaning easier/faster. Is it worth the price of admission? Entirely up to you...
This is something that Chuck Pressburg has talked about some in the past. It’s a gun that’s inherently easier to shoot well, and that’s pretty much it. If you’re a very skilled shooter, you’ll see less of a difference in performance between a 2011 and a glock/sig/M&P. I can’t speak to why agencies decided to give 2011s another try, but I’d assume the accuracy potential of the gun and how much the trigger lets you get away with factored into that decision.
The magazine has certainly been the main weak point of the 2011 design. It’s clear at this point though that staccato farming out production of those has resulted in a better magazine. How much better? Well, they don’t have to be tuned nearly as much any more, and the current crop of staccatos are more reliable than STIs of the past.
My experience with them is limited to 3 guns, two of which were range rentals. All have been trouble free, and all have been easy to shoot well particularly strong hand/weak hand only.
In all fairness, that thread has a lot more to it than just “my gun no work, halp” posts. A lot of it it just follows from the average 1911 person being a tinkerer, or the average person on this forum being curious and asking for input or answers to questions.
Also, can we be careful about implying that everyone on this forum who carries a 1911 variant is “stupid?” I’m pretty sure all of them besides me are the opposite.
We could also probably keep this thread focused on the OP’s gun.
Your sample size is considerably smaller than either of the agencies I mentioned. Of the instructors I’ve talked with or seen talk about staccatos in class, none have said that they’re seeing an undue amount of failures with them, or more failures than they see with any gun in class. It’s still a 1911 design so you need to lube it a lot and keep spare parts on hand, but once again it’s clear that these guns are better than the STIs of the past. Whether that’s just because of new mags or because of the other changes implemented, there are enough new guns with new mags out in the shooting world that it’s not hard to see.
Whether 2011s are worth the money or not is a different question and a deeply personal one. If they aren’t worth it for you, cool. But that’s not the question at hand here.
I’m not implying that anyone carrying a 1911 is stupid, but all the hype around Staccato definitely is.
Maybe it’s just people who haven’t been exposed to 19/2011s for over 20 years, but some of us have seen this before. It’s not the first time.
My mistake reading what you said then, sorry about that.
I’d agree that there do seem to be a lot of people who are discovering the 1911 family for the first time and getting really excited about it. I’ll also admit I’m somewhat benefiting from that hype (more aftermarket support) but I get the critique.
Reply With Quote