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Thread: 2000 rounds with the Staccato P DPO

  1. #1
    Site Supporter JSGlock34's Avatar
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    2000 rounds with the Staccato P DPO

    I've long been 2011 curious and after trying a friend's Staccato P, I decided to scratch the itch. I ordered a Staccato P DPO (steel frame) direct from Staccato via their 'Heroes Program' - besides a nice discount, because I had the pistol shipped to one of their preferred dealers, they picked up the transfer fee as well. The purchase process was very easy, and the pistol arrived according to their posted timeline (about 90 days). I mounted a Trijicon RM06 with the corresponding OEM DPO plate, ordered some extra magazines, and got started.

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    As of this post I've put 2275 documented rounds through the pistol. Just about every thread on the Staccato 2011 pivots around the gun's reliability, so I'll cut right to the chase. The gun runs. I've had one malfunction during this entire period, and I'm 99% sure I caused it by applying thumb pressure to the slide during the second range session, causing a FTF. That was within the first five hundred rounds with the gun, and I haven't had an issue since. Perhaps I'm explaining this one away, but I've shot 9mm 1911s in the past, and they're susceptible to the same malfunction. Once I reminded myself to be mindful of keeping my support hand thumb away from the slide, the gun has run.

    Now, this wasn't a 2000 round challenge, and honestly I have no plans to conduct one. My experience with 9mm 1911s has taught me that these guns are sensitive to lubrication issues. I keep the gun well lubed and am typically wiping it down and applying new lubricant (either Slip 2000 EWL or Lucas) every other range session (@ 300-500 round intervals). The gun runs better wet, and a few minutes of more frequent maintenance keeps it going.

    I think we can have a legitimate conversation about whether the gun's lubrication requirements and the sensitivity of the slide motion is an issue for a duty firearm. When I shot 9mm 1911s more frequently, I had wondered how they would perform in military environmental testing. My guns tend to lead a soft life, so I'm not terribly concerned, but perhaps this isn't the gun for a desert environment or the apocalypse.

    Here's the breakdown of the 2275 rounds of ammunition used so far...

    61 x 147 gr. Speer G2 JHP
    1244 x 147 gr. Federal/American Eagle FMJ
    238 x 124 gr. Federal/American Eagle FMJ
    724 x 124 gr. Norma FMJ
    8 x 115 gr. Federal/American Eagle FMJ

    The Federal/AE 147 gr. FMJ load has long been my preferred training round for my Glock and Beretta handguns. However, my perception was that the slide cycled somewhat slower with the 147gr. load, and that I was almost waiting for the muzzle to come back down. The 124 gr. FMJ rounds seemed to impart a bit more slide velocity and bring out the 'flat shooting' character of the Staccato more, and I eventually moved to the Norma load, which has proven accurate and reliable (not to mention available at a lower price point). I'll note the malfunction I induced was with the 147 gr. load. I've recently wondered whether the pistol might benefit from +P ammunition for defensive use to impart a bit more velocity to the slide, and I plan to put some Gold Dot and Critical Duty Flexlock +P loads through the gun in the near future. In any case, I plan to keep with 124 gr. for practice.

    So what else about the gun? To paraphrase Colonel Whelen, only accurate pistols are interesting. I'm not the world's best 25 yard shooter, but the Staccato makes me want to put up a B8 bull and shoot for score. Below unsupported group at 25 yards isn't my highest score with the gun, but I think the six shots through the same hole illustrate the kind of accuracy this gun is capable of.

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    Perhaps my favorite exercise is shooting 1" squares at 7 yards. I typically start and end my range sessions with an accuracy focused course of fire. The Staccato makes it easy. The trigger is not as light as my Wilson Combat, but it is smooth with a crisp break. I can shoot a Glock trigger well, but 1911 style triggers are sublime.

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    I've shot most of the standard tactical drills at this point; 'FAST', 'The Test', etc. My FAST times could use some improvement - my best are in the high fives with this pistol. I haven't gotten the slide lock reloads where I want them yet; I'm simply not as smooth using the support hand thumb to activate the slide release. It'll get there. However, I'll note that feeding the Staccato is a breeze. Between the extreme taper on the magazines and the cavernous magwell, it is almost difficult to get the magazine to hang up on insertion. Here's a 100 on 'The Test', shot from concealment, on a FBI IP-1 bullseye.

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    I have eight 17 round and four 20 round magazines; all are marked GEN3. Despite the magazines being the Achilles heel of the 2011 design, I've yet to experience a magazine related malfunction (there's a statement bound to attract the wrath of the Gun Gods). I had been especially suspicious of the 20 round magazines, as I had seen failures to lock back with GEN2 20 round magazines on a friend's gun. The mags seem...fine. The only issue I've observed is that dropping a partially loaded magazine can cause the spring to compress and rounds to spill out. Certainly these aren't the only magazines susceptible to that problem.

    I've been carrying the pistol in either a JMCK 'George' AIWB holster or a LAS Concealment Saya 2.0 with the X300U attached. The latter has become my typical carry choice, with a 20 round spare magazine carried in a JMCK high ride pouch. With the X300U attached, it is not a small pistol; I do find it somewhat more comfortable to carry without the light. The X300U also protrudes just far enough past the muzzle for the lens to get significantly fouled; regularly applying Cat Crap has become part of my maintenance routine. However, I do like the shooting characteristics with the X300U attached, as well as the illumination capability. So far I've left the large magwell attached; I'm surprised that it doesn't seem to print as much as I thought it would. I also have a Safariland 6390RDS for my battle belt; it works just like my other ALS holsters. I've also ordered a Milt Sparks VM2 IWB for this gun; the VM2 is my favorite carry method for the 1911 and I want to see how it works for the Staccato.

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    So one other note about the pistol. At the end of my second range session, I noticed the web of my shooting hand was getting beat up, and there was a significant 'hot spot' where the grip and thumb safety are blended. It was interfering with my enjoyment of the pistol, and considering the high price of entry, I sent off a note to Staccato asking what could be done. Considering I sent the email on a Sunday, I wasn't expecting a response, but customer service responded that night and the gun was on its way back to Staccato the next day (at their expense). It was back in my hands 10 days later, with a worksheet indicating that extra blending to the thumb safety area had been performed. And this absolutely took care of the problem - no more hot spot. Now I'll agree all day long that a pistol at this price point should arrive blended and dehorned, and the customer shouldn't have to address this issue, but Staccato Customer Service's immediate response left me deeply impressed.

    Overall, I am deeply enjoying shooting this pistol. It runs well, it is highly accurate, and flat shooting. It is it worth the price of admission? I have a safe full of Glocks that this pistol is not going to replace, but I also find that particular debate uninteresting. There's lot to like about this high capacity 9mm, MRDS equipped pistol with a 1911 trigger. Now I just need to find someone's XL or XC to try out...
    Last edited by JSGlock34; 01-22-2022 at 02:34 PM.
    "When the phone rang, Parker was in the garage, killing a man."

  2. #2
    Site Supporter dontshakepandas's Avatar
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    The Staccatos are definitely like shooting with easy mode turned on.

    I found that the Tenicor Malus Sol was quite a bit more comfortable than the LAS Saya for carrying with the X300 without giving up any concealment, so you may want to give that a try. Shoot me a PM if you want to save a few bucks on one I don't need anymore.

    The C2 is definitely also worth a look. The weight difference was very noticeable when actually carrying for me but I don't feel like it gives up much when actually shooting either.

  3. #3
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    My P Duo is still running like a raped ape(duty and SWAT use). I don't treat it with kid gloves and it's still eating everything I feed it(to include 90gr frangible in the shoothouse). No regrets on the purchase but unfortunately I want a c2 now....

  4. #4
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    Is thumb pressure on the slide as much of an issue on .45s?

    My grip can induce malfunctions on some guns, like the Glock 42 due to this issue, but otherwise has not been a problem for me. Especially with my P-07.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by TheNewbie View Post
    Is thumb pressure on the slide as much of an issue on .45s?

    My grip can induce malfunctions on some guns, like the Glock 42 due to this issue, but otherwise has not been a problem for me. Especially with my P-07.
    Not the OP...

    I can induce malfunctions in any pistol if I grip hard with my support thumb on the slide. I think it's easy to do on 9mm 1911's/2011's because of the tall heavy slide and lower powered ammunition. I can slow a .45 1911 slide easily as well. It was a lot harder for me to do on my CZ shadow and shadow 2 because the slide was so small and my thumb actually sat on the frame instead of the slide.

    I think thumb pressure there is a bad habit anyway, doesn't contribute to recoil control, and likely contributes to inaccurate shooting.

  6. #6
    Site Supporter JSGlock34's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bofe954 View Post
    I think it's easy to do on 9mm 1911's/2011's because of the tall heavy slide and lower powered ammunition.
    I think the combination of the 9mm cartridge, the heavy slide mass originally intended for the .45, and the light recoil spring necessary to run the 9mm reliably - just means the 2011 design is more prone to this kind of malfunction than perhaps some others. I haven't personally encountered this problem with the .45 1911, but retarding the slide is a recipe for problems with any pistol. @SoCalDep commented on this particular issue with the Staccato in one of his posts in the red dot forum...

    Quote Originally Posted by SoCalDep View Post
    Last week we had another department 1911/2011 certification class...Most of the guns functioned well. One student was putting a lot of pressure on the slide with their thumb and causing failures to feed and eject. He was starting to get the hang of it (a bit) by the end of day one, but then got sick (the next day he thought he had Covid but tested negative) and didnít return for day two.

    Had another student who was having some trouble with thumb placement regarding the safety and slide and had a few (infrequent but enough to know he wasnít doing it right) malfunctions on day one and a couple early on day two. Ultimately this is a training issue BUT Iím leery of 9mm 1911s that are so easily influenced in a negative way when other guns arenít. Thatís why I think the shorter barrel and more positive slide return of the C2 makes it more reliable.
    As noted, this is a training issue, and an easily corrected one.
    "When the phone rang, Parker was in the garage, killing a man."

  7. #7
    I think itís comical that 9mm 19/2011s were never fit for serious use until STI changed the name, made Ďem black, and put a flag on Ďem. Totally mitigated all the inherent pitfalls.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by M2CattleCo View Post
    I think itís comical that 9mm 19/2011s were never fit for serious use until STI changed the name, made Ďem black, and put a flag on Ďem. Totally mitigated all the inherent pitfalls.
    I think itís clear at this point that theyíre doing something beyond marketing right. Theyíve gotten contracts with more agencies than any 9mm 2011 Iím aware of, and seem to be less problematic farming out mag production to a company that actually specializes in making mags seems to have been a huge part of that.

    I donít know, a lot of the anti staccato sentiment I see comes from this forum, and seems to be based on experience with other 2011s or older STIs. I donít really hear too many negative things about staccatos in terms of reliability or durability, especially considering how popular theyíre becoming as duty pistols.

  9. #9
    Does Not Work For You TGS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M2CattleCo View Post
    I think itís comical that 9mm 19/2011s were never fit for serious use until STI changed the name, made Ďem black, and put a flag on Ďem. Totally mitigated all the inherent pitfalls.
    Do you have anything relevant to share about the current Staccato?
    "Are you ready? Okay. Let's roll."- Last words of Todd Beamer

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by M2CattleCo View Post
    I think itís comical that 9mm 19/2011s were never fit for serious use until STI changed the name, made Ďem black, and put a flag on Ďem. Totally mitigated all the inherent pitfalls.
    It would be comical if thatís all they did but they did a lot more than that.

    The biggest change being re-designing the magazines and outsourcing production of same. That process has continued resulting in the GEN 3 mags.

    Having seen the prior ďGeppettoís workshop ďmethod STI was using to produce magazines in house Iím amazed any of them worked at all. Based on seeing what I saw I would guess most of the tuning of STI mags that used to go on with simply making them consistent from msg to mag.

    But hey Iím sure Dave Dawson, Shawn Armstrong and the engineering talent they brought in donít know anything about making guns run better or QC more consistent.

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