Old ammunition plant to re-open near Texarkana

[beenalongtime]

Right. As HCM posted, one of the most expensive parts of making ammo is the unique design needs of the physical plant. You can find pictures of people who have experienced primer detonation in their Dillon press, and multiply that by many orders of magnitude. The plant is compartmented in a way that an accident in one part of the plant doesn’t result in a catastrophic chain of explosions and fires.

You could take a quite old physical plant, roll the old machines out and roll new ones in. That is still not a trivial undertaking, but its far quicker than starting from scratch.

I understood the facilities against primer detonation and all (we had someone die here a few years ago, in our plant when it happened). I missed any equipment, as what has been described to me here equipment refurbishing, as slapping new chains on worn gears. Of course part of the issue is our plant would have to shut down, to modernize, and they don't want to do that.

[Lester Polfus]

I understood the facilities against primer detonation and all (we had someone die here a few years ago, in our plant when it happened). I missed any equipment, as what has been described to me here equipment refurbishing, as slapping new chains on worn gears. Of course part of the issue is our plant would have to shut down, to modernize, and they don't want to do that.

Since that plant can sell every round they can make on their worn out equipment, Here is how I imagine that discussion:

Guys on the line: “This shit is wore out and you need to replace it before it breaks down completely, or blows up and kills somebody!”

Management: “Shut down now? In our moment of triumph? You must be joking.”

The ammo business is a funny thing. When 9mm is .18 a round, lots of people can’t be bothered to buy an extra box or two a payday. When there is a panic, those same people will jump through their own asshole to stockpile cases for .50 a round.

I think there is an excellent chance we will see a red house and senate after 2022, and a great chance we will see a red White House after 2024, and demand will reduce.

My fear at that point for your plant is that the Wharton School grads will emerge from their holes, blink owlishly, and say “wow, all this machinery is really old. The ROI isn’t there to upgrade, so we should just shut it all down.”

[fatdog]

I sent the article link to a friend in the industry at a major distributor to see what he had heard about it. He was very aware of it, they had talked the Smissen guy in 2020, and said are skeptical that he has all the funding sources lined up to pull it off.

But no insider knowledge on that, just his speculation based on conversations they had with the guy and the fact he would not be specific with them about his financial backing.

Usually when you have solid financial backing on a start up venture, the private, or fund based backers will make themselves known in order to help avoid that sort of speculation. It is certainly required for them to get the credit necessary to move forward. $100M is a lot of capital for a non-tech, non-healthcare venture these days. There has to be a big backer firmly committed to get that credit.

According to D&B, Expansion Industries, this guy’s company, is only a $1.5M operation with 20 employees currently and has been around since 2013. Expansion Industries LLC Company Profile | Carrollton, TX | Competitors, Financials & Contacts - Dun & Bradstreet (dnb.com)

I hope he pulls it off, the industry needs the competition long term, but it appears possible this venture is all hat and no cattle.

[Jim Watson]

I have seen one debunker to post that it was only $100,000; not $100,000,000.

But they are hiring:

Energetics Lead Styphnate Chemist- job post
Expansion Industries
523 Titus Rd, Hooks, TX 75561
$85,000 - $115,000 a year - Full-time

https://www.indeed.com/jobs?q=Expans...019806bbb7e370


Which is a surprise to me, I thought and said that anybody getting into the ammo business would pick a lead free priming mix.

[TGS]

I don't disagree with the assertion that it's a complicated and difficult industry to do business in. And I doubt anyone here cried when Trump was in office and ammo manufacturers were giving away ammo via rebates etc. Political instability means the companies have to make hay while the sun shines, and I don't blame them for wanting to take a profit where and when they can. If Vista can make Remington ammo plants churn out more and better ammo, that's great, and maybe I'm wrong.

I just believe that having a few more options might be beneficial to avoid having all our eggs in one or two baskets, and avoiding monopolies in the industry. AR-15's used to be made by a handfull of companies and were semi-expensive. Now every swinging Richard makes one, and they are more available and less expensive. I know that's not an apples to apples comparison.

I'm not a economics student, but I did play the board game. If current companies can't meet demand, maybe we need a couple more to help meet it. If they are good companies, maybe they will weather the next political swing. I doubt that most of these new gun owners are the types that shoot 500 rounds on a range trip, but there will be a few. I think that would support more ammo production here in the states. Maybe we need to onshore more of our chemical industry again. Maybe we shouldn't count on global supply chains always being uninterrupted. If it means American jobs, and stronger industry and economic base in the USA... I'm game.

It's just, like, my opinion, man.

I think the problem here is that when the "surge" dies off, they're going to be in a world of hurt when trying to compete against the global supply chain.

We would need to subsidize the ammunition industry for your scenario to work.

[fatdog]

I have seen one debunker to post that it was only $100,000; not $100,000,000.

But they are hiring

$100K might well get you a lease on an abandoned, unused industrial site with few prospects for occupancy.....and they are recruiting (I distinguish that slightly from hiring, having seen companies trying to line up talent for the day they can actually afford the hiring part).

These guys might also be scrambling at the fund raising, big time, hence the press article.

[Borderland]

It can only be good news eventually but it still won't help now if the main obstacle is actually procuring the materials to make the primers.

I'm not current. What materials would be difficult to get?

[Borderland]

This is more of a reloading question, but this seems like a good thread to post this in.

I don't reload, however I've been considering getting into it. Have been reading several manuals.

So if the reloading manual says to use A grains of Brand X powder along with brand Y primer; and now this new company Z starts making primers.

Can you just interchange primer brands?

I had a bunch of Russian primers for awhile. None of those were listed in the manuals. They worked just like every other primer I used except every now and then they would try to move into a bigger box.

Seriously, if the primer is a standard size, and they fit the brass you happen to be using, they all function about the same.

[OlongJohnson]

People splitting hairs on rifle accuracy can often identify small differences when changing primers. I haven't seen reports of it being a concern with handguns.

[GearFondler]

I'm not current. What materials would be difficult to get?

I'm no expert, I've just heard that most of the shit required to make stuff go boom is dug up in China and other oddball places across the ocean, which means it gets caught up in the current supply chain issues.