Two major manufacturers have announced new SAOs for 2022; the S&W CSX and FN USA "High Power."
I have not yet seen an Internet Expert to pronounce that they are dangerous because you will "forget the safety" and either shoot yourself through not engaging it, or get shot by an assailant from not disengaging it. The solution being DA/SA or Glockish with no safety to forget to manipulate. There was an old training video with that premise and I was expecting it to be revived.
Code Name: JET STREAM
Staccato killed that problem.
David S.
John Lovell has been beating that drum for a while.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YOcbXvTZs1w
I enjoy his videos and he’s very knowledgeable, but I sometimes see some places where he should allow for nuance but doesn’t. Safeties and aftermarket triggers for example. I understand his focus is on newer shooters or those less into the discipline of shooting. But those are the exact people that I don’t really want out running around with a non-safety five lb trigger like Glock. But that’s what he knows from his Ranger-ing so…
Last edited by TOTS; 01-20-2022 at 07:14 PM.
Originally Posted by TOTS
John Lovell seems like a good dude, who cares about what is right. He is a much better at shooting and instructing others than I am.
I still wish people like him would have the lightbulb go regarding the benefits of things like the SCD, DAO, hammers and safeties.
Last edited by TheNewbie; 01-20-2022 at 08:05 PM.
Oh it is still out there. Of course I have seen a number of people comment on the S&W that they just won't use the safety. Lets face it, most people who buy the gun won't put more than a couple of boxes of ammo through it.
I had gunsmiths put thumb safeties on my Glocks and they have SCDs, but I have zero quarrel with the “point-and-pull” pistol people. A holster that covers the trigger and prevents activation is good by me.
Good and responsible gun handling is independent of the safety mechanisms. It’s hard for me to gauge the gun handling of the “average” shooter. I got into various forms of competition early, and I was lucky to also get early professional training.
I completely see the point that a person who does not have deeply ingrained gun handling would miss a safety deactivation, even if just the act of my grip and draw deactivates mine. I like that there are options, but I do think about how of particularly carefully noted members of this forum will treat a striker pistol without SCD or thumb safety, and then I think about how common that sort of design is among our “average” gun owner.
All that “here’s my safety” nonsense (the one scene in that movie that I really just hate), any serious organization has a safety manipulation that is just top-notch and easily evident. The No Easy Day author even wrote about being called out on his safety manipulation as he was training. But that’s rifles, and we have Kydex now that we never had before.
I like the safeties, but if my first pistol way back when had been the Glock instead of the USP, I wonder where I would be on this debate.
Per the PF Code of Conduct, I have a commercial interest in the StreakTM product as sold by Ammo, Inc.
I have watched John off and on for a few years and he does know his stuff. I think that he and the few other competent YT personalities are keenly aware of not just their audience but also their potential audience and tailor some things to that.
I would guesstimate that about 90% of their viewer ship is either Fudds or people who buy a gun shoot 50-500 rounds a year and maybe took a basic NRA class.
The example he mentions early on, I would agree that a gun with a safety might be an issue in that situation. It sounds like the buyer was not someone who is jumping into the deep end of the gun handling world. It's one thing to be someone who can switch seamlessly between a Glock, Beretta, and a 1911 vs one that going to touch their gun 1 once a year.
As David S. mentioned, a powerhouse marketing push tend to be a big influence (wonder how "5.5lbs" become a standard trigger weight)
Sounds like you're looking for an argument rather than wanting any sort of legitimate conversation about the topic.
There's pros/cons and valid points on both side of the argument. At this point in life, for professional reasons I would prefer a sidearm with a manual safety......but I don't consider @BehindBlueI's an "internet expert" for his opinion, which is an opinion informed on winning a gunfight when his thumb was broken and unable to operate a manual safety. I think it's pretty weak to dismiss "that side" of the argument as being "internet experts" just because you're a cranky boomer.
"Are you ready? Okay. Let's roll."- Last words of Todd Beamer
I did break my thumb in a fight (or more accurately I had it broken for me), but it didn't go to guns. He died in a different manner. Basically fought himself to death, excited delirium sort of deal that was beyond my control. I was considering if I needed to go to guns, though, and the fact my thumb didn't work was a strong consideration. I was lucky in that I had back up from another department there immediately and more on the way pretty quick. Really high, really big, really violent people aren't much fun to deal with. I was not injured in my shooting, which was a different event.
I can also point to several real world gun fights were people lost because they didn't get the safety off. I know, training issue. Everything is a training issue. You may be good enough to get it 100% of the time. You may train so well at ECQC you can get it while someone bigger than you is jerking you around, or your knocked on your ass and entangled, or your injured. I'm pretty sure I'm not that good, so no thumb safeties for me.
Sorta around sometimes for some of your shitty mod needs.
This kind of thinking by you humbles me about my desire for a safety. I would prefer one over nothing, like on a factory Glock, but you make me think that a hammer fired DA/SA or DAO gun really is the way to go.
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