LAPD gets 1st delivery of new FN 509s

[L-2]

I think worthy of note, I don't believe Los Angeles Police (LAPD) switches all 8.967 sworn gun carriers over each time it switches to a newly-issued firearm make & model.

I believe existing issued firearms are used until someone makes a decision the individual officer's handgun needs replacement, although this could be a thousand officers at a time. I don't know how long the older guns would be kept. I suppose it is possible I'm completely wrong and 8967 handguns (and some spares, leather gear, optics, & maybe lights) will be bought and issued to each officer at a periodic qualification.

This doesn't include any special units with special approvals to carry STI or 1911-type handguns.

I also think some of this depends on how well a Chief can obtain funding for larger weapons buys. Heck, maybe LAPD was able to get enough funding (city council; Federal/state grants; to buy 9000 new guns with supporting accessories. That $180/gun price might be a mere $1.6M and don't know what holsters, mag carriers, optics, and lights might add. I don't know how that $180/gun price details worked as someone mentioned; &/or does that price somehow include trading in old guns.

Training costs on a new handgun with its accessories would also need to be budgeted in somehow, too.

Where I worked all ~600 of us got the Glock 22gen2, then the replacement G22gen3, then the G17gen4. I think that department is still using the G17gen4 guns. Newly issued guns were swapped out at the LEO's next qualification and these quals were 2x/year. Personally-owned guns used on-duty would only be for our backup guns, if any individual wanted to ever carry one.

Perhaps someone with more knowledge than I've got can elaborate on how LAPD actually works with issued handguns and to what extent personally-owned firearms are allowed and monitored, if any.

[TGS]

I think worthy of note, I don't believe Los Angeles Police (LAPD) switches all 8.967 sworn gun carriers over each time it switches to a newly-issued firearm make & model.

I believe existing issued firearms are used until someone makes a decision the individual officer's handgun needs replacement, although this could be a thousand officers at a time. I don't know how long the older guns would be kept. I suppose it is possible I'm completely wrong and 8967 handguns (and some spares, leather gear, optics, & maybe lights) will be bought and issued to each officer at a periodic qualification.

This doesn't include any special units with special approvals to carry STI or 1911-type handguns.

I also think some of this depends on how well a Chief can obtain funding for larger weapons buys. Heck, maybe LAPD was able to get enough funding (city council; Federal/state grants; to buy 9000 new guns with supporting accessories. That $180/gun price might be a mere $1.6M and don't know what holsters, mag carriers, optics, and lights might add. I don't know how that $180/gun price details worked as someone mentioned; &/or does that price somehow include trading in old guns.

Training costs on a new handgun with its accessories would also need to be budgeted in somehow, too.

Where I worked all ~600 of us got the Glock 22gen2, then the replacement G22gen3, then the G17gen4. I think that department is still using the G17gen4 guns. Newly issued guns were swapped out at the LEO's next qualification and these quals were 2x/year. Personally-owned guns used on-duty would only be for our backup guns, if any individual wanted to ever carry one.

Perhaps someone with more knowledge than I've got can elaborate on how LAPD actually works with issued handguns and to what extent personally-owned firearms are allowed and monitored, if any.

This has already been covered numerous times in multiple threads, including earlier in this one on the very first page.

Yes, what you wrote appears to be the case.

[John Hearne]

FN supplied LAPD with a special press to disassemble the FN receivers, which your average consumer or smaller department isn't going to have. A Glock can be fully stripped with a 3/32 punch (or a sacrificial Bic pen in a jam). The newer M&P's only require a 3/32 punch and a couple hex wrenches to access the safety plunger under the plate. So to me, the FN 509 is needlessly more complex than these.

This can't be emphasized enough. I maintained classic Sigs for a bunch of year. I LOVE the P320's modularity. I can disassemble almost every thing and chunk it in an ultrasonic. Pull it out, blow it off, relube and rock on in almost no time.

[Trukinjp13]

Is it easy as a Glock? No. What pistol is?

The 509 is not hard to take apart. Trigger group is simple to pull and reinstall. (Apex tool)Think some are being a wee bit dramatic here. I’ve had multiples and still own the midsize. Which has been great.

Can we please cut the shit about their history of striker pistols? They built the Fns, realized it was not up to par and moved on. 509 has been out since like early 2017 now. They’ve continuously added new models in the duty and in the competition realm. Also now have large bore models. You can plug and play slides as you want across the platform. Support slowly is growing as well in the aftermarket. Im not leg humping the thing, just stating facts


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[HCM]

This has already been covered numerous times in multiple threads, including earlier in this one on the very first page.

Yes, what you wrote appears to be the case.

This ^^^.

As detailed previously (multiple times) LAPD doesn’t switch the whole department when they switch “issued” guns.

The 509 is only issued to new officers going through the Academy so no significant training costs.

In service officers remain with the gun they went through the Academy with unless they want to spend their own money for one of the other options and associated support gear.

As such are no trade in guns.

I asked a retired LAPD buddy about the 509:

No real issues with the 509s.

Not much interest from in service officers re: switching to the 509.

Most in service officers looking to switch guns at their own expense are going Stacatto.

[HCM]

Is it easy as a Glock? No. What pistol is?

The 509 is not hard to take apart. Trigger group is simple to pull and reinstall. (Apex tool)Think some are being a wee bit dramatic here. I’ve had multiples and still own the midsize. Which has been great.

Can we please cut the shit about their history of striker pistols? They built the Fns, realized it was not up to par and moved on. 509 has been out since like early 2017 now. They’ve continuously added new models in the duty and in the competition realm. Also now have large bore models. You can plug and play slides as you want across the platform. Support slowly is growing as well in the aftermarket. Im not leg humping the thing, just stating facts


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How many times have you been in a body of water, a swimming pool or been covered in mud, bodily fluids (or human waste) while open carrying your 509 ?

Just because something is not a requirement for your uses doesn’t mean it’s not a real thing for someone else. This thread is about the use of the 509 as an LE duty pistol. At the institutional level things that can be insignificant for individuals can be problematic when scaled up.

A non commercial version of the 509 passed my agency’s testing. I’m convinced the 509 is durable and reliable but there’s more to suitability as an issued gun for a large organization than just “shoots good.”

FN made a whole series of shitty polymer guns (FNP, FNX and FNS) prior to getting serious and treating their pistols like they treat their other small arms resulting in the 509. It’s not just the one bad model.

You can regard that as (well deserved) bashing of FN’s half assed prior efforts or as an acknowledgment of the contrast between what it took to produce the 509 vs their prior polymer pistols.

Unfortunately there is some sort of cognitive dissonance where people don’t have the headspace for the idea that certain manufacturers have some products that are great and some that are not.

This is not unique to FN. Trijicon optics and service sized Glocks vs slim line Glocks are other examples.

The haters will seize on the bad models to claim all the companies products are deficient, and the fanboys will deny the bad products are deficient based on the products which are actually good.

[TGS]

Is it easy as a Glock? No. What pistol is?

From my observation, almost any pistol using a standard "pull back slide to the notch and pop out the slide stop lever" is easier to disassemble for the average LEO than the Glock.

I've seen a disturbing amount of LEOs who cannot easily disassemble a Glock...I'd say it's one of the harder pistols to disassemble for many LEOs. Either they pull the slide too far back because they can't grasp the concept since there's no visual indicator like the disassembly notch in the slide for the slide stop lever on a P320, HK P2000, etc, or in the case of those with small hands they often have trouble pulling back to slide while manipulating the little slide lock buttons on each side simultaneously.

It's stuff like this that makes me disappointed in humanity, but at the same time it's somewhat understandable since the average LEO is not a gun hobbyist and the gun is no different to them as a tool than their radio, and the majority of LEOs aren't ham radio enthusiasts either that spend their weekends climbing mountains to play geolocating easter-egg games with @mtnbkr.

[mtnbkr]

...spend their weekends climbing mountains to play geolocating easter-egg games with @mtnbkr.

Don't kink shame.

Chris

[Trukinjp13]

How many times have you been in a body of water, a swimming pool or been covered in mud, bodily fluids (or human waste) while open carrying your 509 ?

Just because something is not a requirement for your uses doesn’t mean it’s not a real thing for someone else. This thread is about the use of the 509 as an LE duty pistol. At the institutional level things that can be insignificant for individuals can be problematic when scaled up.

A non commercial version of the 509 passed my agency’s testing. I’m convinced the 509 is durable and reliable but there’s more to suitability as an issued gun for a large organization than just “shoots good.”

FN made a whole series of shitty polymer guns (FNP, FNX and FNS) prior to getting serious and treating their pistols like they treat their other small arms resulting in the 509. It’s not just the one bad model.

You can regard that as (well deserved) bashing of FN’s half assed prior efforts or as an acknowledgment of the contrast between what it took to produce the 509 vs their prior polymer pistols.

Unfortunately there is some sort of cognitive dissonance where people don’t have the headspace for the idea that certain manufacturers have some products that are great and some that are not.

This is not unique to FN. Trijicon optics and service sized Glocks vs slim line Glocks are other examples.

The haters will seize on the bad models to claim all the companies products are deficient, and the fanboys will deny the bad products are deficient based on the products which are actually good.

My response was specific to their other striker pistol. Not the hammer fired series.

And no I have not bled all over my pistol or intentionally threw it in the mud and stomped on it to see if it will work. It’s been muddy/sandy, through a lake when I got one of my dogs out and survived winters here. I do not have the capability to test it like mil/Leo does. I am just trying to respond to people who insult the pistol and have no real experience with them.

Honestly I don’t know why I even commented, seems pointless to offer any experience with certain things on this place anymore.


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[jh9]

who insult the pistol and have no real experience with them.

It's an inanimate object, it can't be insulted.

First hand experience with the model is useful, but context is important. Institutional users have different needs, and expose the weapon to different potential failure modes than individuals do. Critique of the 509's complexity is perfectly valid here, even if it isn't particularly meaningful to an individual user.