Firearms Access and Suicide Prevention

[4RNR]

I remember reading years ago that women mostly chose pills and men mostly chose a firearm. This was 20 or so years ago so the data, if true, probably changed.

I think if you take something away it has some immediate effect but in long term (weeks, months, years) nothing will change, something new will take it's place.

Friction and nudging I totally don't get. I understand what you mean, I just don't understand people's sheep like mentality to go along with what they don't want or agree with within the scope of the law of course. I'm not talking about crazy shit here.

[Le Français]

I remember reading years ago that women mostly chose pills and men mostly chose a firearm. This was 20 or so years ago so the data, if true, probably changed.

That's consistent with my more recent (though of course, limited) experience.

[TAZ]

If the goal is to actually prevent or reduce the number of suicides, the path forward isn’t gun control, drug control,… ad nauseum. It’s addressing the root cause. That root cause is between peoples ears. We need to make mental health care available (not the take 2 pills and call me in 6 months kind) and not seem like taboo, being a pussy… That will help reduce suicides across the board.

Smart guns, red flags…are excuses to gain more control over peoples rights. Without addressing the mental issues those people will continue to suffer and eventually find a way to kill themselves. Then want. Smart rope? Smart knives??

[TAZ]

I remember reading years ago that women mostly chose pills and men mostly chose a firearm. This was 20 or so years ago so the data, if true, probably changed.

I think if you take something away it has some immediate effect but in long term (weeks, months, years) nothing will change, something new will take it's place.

Friction and nudging I totally don't get. I understand what you mean, I just don't understand people's sheep like mentality to go along with what they don't want or agree with within the scope of the law of course. I'm not talking about crazy shit here.

Friction and nudging = slow boil. You don’t notice stuff till it’s too late so to speak.


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[4RNR]

Friction and nudging = slow boil. You don’t notice stuff till it’s too late so to speak.


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I get that I just don't understand going along with it. I like what I like and no amount of boil is going to change that. The example of the opt-in and opt-out of 401. If I didn't want it I would have made sure to get the phone number to call and opt out the very first day and the very first chance I had. I didn't ask for it and I don't appreciate being forced to have it.

Current inconvenience I'm having in my business. Bought a new PC because the old one is like from 2008. Been updated a few times but it's old and slow. Transferred everything into the new PC except my invoice program will no longer work. It's from 2006 and has the CD with the license# that you have to type in to register, for it to work. The company no longer supports it so the registration doesn't work. I tried everything but the only solution is to get the new version which is now rental only and everything is saved on their servers. F that! I'm not paying for something I already have, I'm definitely NOT renting and definitely NOT putting how much I bill on some cloud somewhere over the rainbow! So nothing left to do but keep the old PC and switch to it when needed and then switch back. It's a little annoying but maybe adds a few extra minutes to the total work day, and not even every day, so no big deal.

I will not eat the bugs, I will not live in a pod! [emoji16]
Sorry for the tread drift on a thread drift.

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[Dr_Thanatos]

When I was a chief at my EMS agency, I don't remember us responding to a single teen suicide using a gun. It's was usually hanging, cutting wrists, or OD. I imagine you see overwhelmingly hangings because it's more successful, whereas we usually had a good chance at reversing the outcome for the other two (so they'd never make it to you).

I don't disagree with anything you stated.

Teen suicides with guns are rare enough I remember many of them. Looking at our data from 2020 - Total of 113, we had 3 in the 12-17 age range. The largest group was 18-29 at 30. Followed by 50-59 at 18. We had 4 in the 90+ age range.

57% were with firearms. 33% asphyxia. 8% toxicity. We do not have the capability to stratify method by age. We do all of our statistics by hand counting. Yay for working for government.

83% male. 17% female. Demographics is basically identical to the demographics of our jurisdiction.

Our per capita rate in 2020 was the highest ever.

It will be a few months before we have our 2021 data.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Here's a recent article on handguns and suicide: https://injepijournal.biomedcentral....21-00365-3.pdf

Handgun purchasing characteristics and firearm suicide risk: a nested case–control study
Julia P. Schleimer1,2* , Rose M. C. Kagawa1,2 and Hannah S. Laqueur1,2

Abstract:

Abstract
Background: Firearms are the most lethal method of suicide and account for approximately half of all suicide deaths
nationwide. We describe associations between firearm purchasing characteristics and firearm suicide.

Methods: Data on all legal handgun transactions in California from 1996 to 2015 were obtained from the California
Department of Justice Dealer’s Record of Sale database. Handgun purchasers were linked to mortality data to identify
those who died between 1996 and 2015. To account for variation in timing and duration of observation time, analyses
were stratified by birth cohort. The primary analysis focused on those aged 21–25 in 1996. A secondary analysis tested
associations among those aged 50–54 in 1996. Using incidence density sampling, purchasers who died by firearm
suicide (cases) were each gender-matched to 5 purchasers (controls) who remained at risk at the case’s time of death.
We examined the characteristics of purchasers and transactions, focusing on the transaction closest in time to the
case’s death. Data were analyzed with conditional logistic regression.

Results: There were 390 firearm suicides among the younger cohort and 512 firearm suicides among the older
cohort. Across both cohorts, older age at first purchase and the purchase of a revolver were associated with greater
risk of firearm suicide. For example, among the younger cohort, those who purchased a revolver versus semiautomatic
pistol had 1.78 times the risk of firearm suicide (95% CI 1.32, 2.40) in multivariable models. Other associations
varied across cohorts, suggesting cohort or age effects in purchasing patterns.

Conclusions: Findings add to the evidence on firearm suicide risk and may help inform prevention strategies and

Interesting indications of older age at first purchase and revolver purchase as a predictor of suicide. How this ties into smart guns? Smart revolvers - probably not going to happen. Smart semi guns with complex manual of arms might be a deterrent to some not tech savvy older folks.

I think a take away is that one should be aware of the signs of suicidal ideation. Here' a resource from the NSSF (not an antigroup) oriented towards youth: https://projectchildsafe.org/parents-resources/

While you can get substitution, perhaps looking at a new gun purchase from someone who has not shown interest before and is troubled, is worth heavy consideration. Removing guns from such a person is a good idea. There is a differential from long term laws and bans and short term immediate action on detecting a problem. Yes, society, drugs, etc. are causal but when you see the signs, actions are needed. Consulted with some clinical and police psychologists on this. You may not save everyone but perhaps you can save some.

As an aside, slowing down impulse has seemed to work in the case of drug packaging. Bubble packs for tyelenol and others worked in the UK. How this interacts with access to guns and rights - complex issues.

[Default.mp3]

From my experience... which I can probably back up with data, if cases ever slow down to give me that opportunity, it is extremely rare for a suicide to occur with someone else's gun.

Equally, teen suicide is a remarkably small percentage of total suicides. And is frequently accomplished by hanging. It's sad, and tragic. But it's not the primary age group to target to drop the overall suicide rate.

When I was a chief at my EMS agency, I don't remember us responding to a single teen suicide using a gun. It's was usually hanging, cutting wrists, or OD. I imagine you see overwhelmingly hangings because it's more successful, whereas we usually had a good chance at reversing the outcome for the other two (so they'd never make it to you).

During my time in the VFD, I never made any suicide calls, but what I had heard largely squares with the hangings, so I am curious as to where the figures of ~40% of suicides involve firearms come from, with ~80% involving a parent's firearm. That being said, it's my understanding that the ~40% figure speaks only to successful suicides, so that may skew our tendencies to lump both successful and unsuccessful suicides in our heads. It might also just be data that's old and thus out-of-date. See https://www.srcd.org/research/access...escent-suicide

If the goal is to actually prevent or reduce the number of suicides, the path forward isn’t gun control, drug control,… ad nauseum. It’s addressing the root cause. That root cause is between peoples ears. We need to make mental health care available (not the take 2 pills and call me in 6 months kind) and not seem like taboo, being a pussy… That will help reduce suicides across the board.

Smart guns, red flags…are excuses to gain more control over peoples rights. Without addressing the mental issues those people will continue to suffer and eventually find a way to kill themselves. Then want. Smart rope? Smart knives??

I despise this line of thinking. Absolutely, if we want to seriously decrease the amount of suicides, we need to tackle the root causes. But here's the thing: you can tackle both the symptoms and the root causes at the same time, and have a more concentrated outcome. If you have an infection, you don't just take antibiotics, but you also take anti-inflammatories, cough suppressants, etc. to help alleviate the issue while the root cause is being tackled. If you want to reduce endemic violent crime, you still do policing, even if the root cause isn't a lack of policing, but a lack of education, economic opportunity, etc. It's not an either-or option.

So if suicide prevention in the USA is one's overriding imperative, gun control would absolutely play a part in any planned reduction, even if it wouldn't take center stage (with smart guns making up one of the facets of said gun control).

[TGS]

I don't disagree with anything you stated.

Teen suicides with guns are rare enough I remember many of them. Looking at our data from 2020 - Total of 113, we had 3 in the 12-17 age range. The largest group was 18-29 at 30. Followed by 50-59 at 18. We had 4 in the 90+ age range.

57% were with firearms. 33% asphyxia. 8% toxicity. We do not have the capability to stratify method by age. We do all of our statistics by hand counting. Yay for working for government.

83% male. 17% female. Demographics is basically identical to the demographics of our jurisdiction.

Our per capita rate in 2020 was the highest ever.

It will be a few months before we have our 2021 data.

You guys only have 1 female for every 4 males in your area? Damn. no wonder everyone's killin' themselves.

[Dr_Thanatos]

You guys only have 1 female for every 4 males in your area? Damn. no wonder everyone's killin' themselves.

LOL

Sorry, racial demographics...not sex.

We always see about 2:1 Male:female cases in general. Testosterone is a hell of a drug.