Black Powder Cartridge Reloading

[psalms144.1]

Hey, all. My best friend and his unbelievably awesome Dad gave me their family heirloom 1860s vintage Sharps 50-70 carbine as a retirement gift. It's gone through the government's program to convert it to a metallic case cartridge rifle. The carbine came with a very heavy box full of brass, bullets, molds, and dies. I've been trying to read up on the process for BPC reloading, but most of the available on-line sources appear to be written by aficionados for aficionados, and read a little like Mandarin chinese to me.

So, can anyone suggest a good reference or just a plain language "how to" guide for this? I'm pretty experienced reloading smokeless cartridges, but things like "drop tube" and "compression die" and "wad" are all really new to me.

Thanks in advance for any advice and assistance!

[oregon45]

Sounds like a fun project! Mike Venturino has written many articles over the years in Handloader and Rifle magazines, from Wolfe Publishing, about reloading for black powder cartridges and I've found those articles to be quite helpful. A web search might turn up some of his articles that are available electronically.

[Jim Watson]

Mike Venturino is a good source. The SPG Primer seems to be out of print but you can still get his other books.
I think .50-70 is included in
https://www.amazon.com/Shooting-Buff...s%2C148&sr=1-1

ETA: Paul Matthews did write a lot about BPCR but I don't know which of his many books to start with.

[BobM]

Paul Matthews also wrote a few books for Wolfe about BPCR loading.

[Shumba]

What Jim Watson said!
Mike’s book is great fun and very helpful.
Rob

[psalms144.1]

Mike Venturino is a good source. The SPG Primer seems to be out of print but you can still get his other books.
I think .50-70 is included in
https://www.amazon.com/Shooting-Buff...s%2C148&sr=1-1

ETA: Paul Matthews did write a lot about BPCR but I don't know which of his many books to start with.

Thanks, ordered the book. More to follow...

[BN]

I used to load some Pyrodex in 44 Special for Cowboy shooting.

I think I remember that you load by volume not weight. Use brass powder measures etc to avoid static electricity. I still have some 20 year old handloads that I don't shoot because I don't want to clean my guns.

Not for score re-entries at the local IDPA match are fun.

[Jim Watson]

Loading black powder by volume is ok if you are doing the Ol' Jim Bridger* or shooting CAS, but for BPCR MS and Target, most follow the advice of the Sharps Rifle Co. 150 years ago: "For fine shooting, powder should be weighed on a scale."
Those who don't use a good rotary measure with care.

*You can't say Ol' Jim Bridger don't never miss, but he don't miss much and he don't miss by much.

[Malamute]

It doesnt have to be complicated. You arent likely to be shooting precision long range, so id not worry much about some of the details that are often mentioned. I shot many hundreds of black powder rounds in 45-70 and 44 spl. Pick a charge that gives about 1/8" of powder compression when you seat the bullet, use a bullet lube thats compatible with black powder, load shells, and go shoot. I never used a drop tube, compression die, wads, or some of the other stuff thats considered necessary by some, i never heard of some of that stuff til recently. You dont need to full length resize the brass (may not even need to neck size in a single shot) and only crimp enough to hold the bullet in place so the compressed powder doesnt push it out of the case. So used, the brass will last a long time.

I mainly clean black powder guns with hot tap water and a patch on a jag or smaller caliber bronze brush. In the 1886 I opened the action, gun upside down (barrel on down side, magazine tube on top side) so the water cal drain out the chamber end when cleaning. Swab a few passes with hot water, get clean wet patch, repeat a half dozen passes, get 3rd wet patch, it should be pretty clean after a half dozen or so passes, it not, go another wet one, once clean patches come out run a few dry ones, use a toothbrush in the action to clean what little fouling is there, oil it up done. It takes less time to clean one than a modern rifle with jacket fouling. I never took the 86 apart to clean it, there was no need, same for the Colt Single Action. Basic bore cleaning and damp rag or patch on exposed surfaces, dry, oil, drive on.

I toss the dirtiest patch or two, hand wash the others with dish soap and dry to use next time.

Toss the empty shells in a pot of water on the stove, simmer on low a little while, like while you clean your gun, then drain, roll around in a towel a minute, lay out to dry with neck downward. They get dark and soulful, but work fine without being shiny.


This is sort of similar to a new shooter being told what to do/get with modern guns. You probably dont need most of the stuff many will tell you to get. Gun, couple mags, ammo,...go shoot. If youre not going to dive in full scale, you dont need to be immersed in details that arent going to make a lot of difference to a casual shooter. Keeping it simple has a lot going for it.

This is all based on real black powder. Some substitutes are more corrosive and harder to clean well than real black powder. Id avoid them if possible. Black is so simple and easy to use and clean up after.

The Sharps percussion conversion guns are some of the coolest firearms ever. Many of the early buffalo guns were converted percussion carbines, theres several tells on converted guns. many are mistakenly labeled 1874s, but they pre-date the 74s. You can pull the breech block easily to clean on this, its a spring loaded latch/pin holding the block in place.

[Jim Watson]

Yup, you can load it that way. Probably no loss in accuracy in one of those cartridge conversions. A friend has one that is about Minute of Apache.

When they converted those .52 "paper cutters" to .50-70 they gauged the bores. A groove diameter up to .525" was considered satisfactory for .50-70; assuming that the .515" soft cast bullet would slug up to fit. My friend's is one of those.
You can tell by looking; if the barrel has six grooves, it is the original Sharps bore and might be anything up to .525" groove diameter. If it has three grooves, it was relined to the same bore as a .50-70 Trapdoor Springfield. Tolerances were generous and it still might not be exactly what you would like.

On the other hand, my cleaning regimen does not require a bathtub, dishwasher, or even a teakettle. I started out with Mike Venturino's recommendation of diluted Windex General Purpose Cleaner with Vinegar (not ammonia.) I later went to just diluting some of the M-Pro 7 I use on smokeless guns. Wet brush and patch to clean the barrel, wipe down everywhere I can reach with a damp cloth. Then dry and oil. Ballistol works but is smelly. There are all sorts of other BP cleaning recipes.
Cleaning at the range while the gun is still warm from firing helps, also doesn't stink up the house.

Brass is decapped on the range and taken home in a jug of soapy water. I washed cases with a test tube brush for a while, then went to wet ceramic tumbling, then to wet steel pin tumbling.