Federal's newish .30 Super, aka a 'spicier' 7.65x20mm Longue

[willie]

9mm Luger is just .30 Luger necked up as an easy way to offer a larger caliber for customers. So no capacity advantage over 9mm, just a smaller bullet and higher velocity.

But one major Army that was in the trenches did adopt a smaller than 9mm caliber.
Which is in the thread title. And they looked at 9mm beforehand too.
But they had the luxury of not having adopted a semi-auto handgun before the war, so weren't incentivized to keep what they had, and could look for the 'optimum' caliber.
The US didnt ditch the .45 after the trenches. And the Brits didnt even ditch revolvers! (Though they did downsize calibers, to a cartridge that is even weaker than 9mm).
The Soviets adopted a souped up version of .30 Lugers cousin.

The French replaced their hodgepodge of revolvers, C96s, and .32 ACPs of various makes, with a hot rodded .32.
The only reason they switched to 9mm post war was because the interwar defense spending was so anemic they barely got anything into service before the Germans were goosestepping through Paris, and ended up with more captured Wehrmacht equipment in stockpiles than anything homegrown.

The necked down 9mm became known as the 30 Luger which was designed to circumvent certain requirements imposed on Germany after WW1. Other than being flat shooting, it offered no advantages which counted for nil in a self defense weapon. I had one when I was a kid. Ammo was difficult to find.

[farscott]

The necked down 9mm became known as the 30 Luger which was designed to circumvent certain requirements imposed on Germany after WW1. Other than being flat shooting, it offered no advantages which counted for nil in a self defense weapon. I had one when I was a kid. Ammo was difficult to find.

No, .30 Luger predates 9x19 and WW I. The 9x19 came about because part of the German military wanted something bigger than .30 Luger. By eliminating the bottleneck from the .30 Luger, the only major change was to the barrel. 9x19 was the result of an effort to minimize tooling impact while meeting the German military requirement.

[willie]

No, .30 Luger predates 9x19 and WW I. The 9x19 came about because part of the German military wanted something bigger than .30 Luger. By eliminating the bottleneck from the .30 Luger, the only major change was to the barrel. 9x19 was the result of an effort to minimize tooling impact while meeting the German military requirement.

Farscott is correct. The round was developed in 1900 according to Frank Barnes and not after WW1 according to Willie. Have any of you seen the many reports in gun literature that the round came about after WW 1? I confess to starting that rumor over 60 years ago. I'm big time glad I consulted the Barnes book before telling Farscott that he was full of shit. I was but not he.🤗

[5pins]

With Italy doing away with that law what other countries have prohibited military calibers and handgun ownership of significance?

Mexico is one. That's why the .38 Super is so popular there.

[Jim Watson]

The Luger pistol was in production in 1900 in 7.65x21 - .30 Luger - only. The first big customer was Switzerland.
DWM developed the 9mm by shortening and nearly straightening the case in 1902-1903. The German navy was the first user from 1904, the army did not adopt until 1908. Before airplanes, the navies of the world were the high tech service; they tried to keep their ships and everything else as modern as they could afford.

The .30 was big again after WWI. Under the onerous restrictions of the Versailles Treaty, the number of 9mms Germany could have was very limited, so they made .30s and rebarrelled a lot of 9mms to .30. I have a 1939 Stoegers that proudly announces the return of the factory 9mm; after years of selling war surplus and rebarrelling .30s. That because Hitler had abrogated the treaty, rearmed and was having another go at a Big Reich.

Mexico is one. That's why the .38 Super is so popular there.

That's a Skeeter Skelton era story. I think the maximum caliber for legal private ownership in Mexico is now .380 or .38 Special.

Italy's limitation on military calibers led to the 9x21; same OAL and ballistics, just not the same round.

France had an interesting one; antiques like Colt SAA were easy to get relative to newer guns but had to be shot with black powder.

Old news, I do not know the current conditions.

[TiroFijo]

That's a Skeeter Skelton era story. I think the maximum caliber for legal private ownership in Mexico is now .380 or .38 Special.

Yes... it has been like that for at least 30 years

[TiroFijo]

That's a Skeeter Skelton era story. I think the maximum caliber for legal private ownership in Mexico is now .380 or .38 Special.

Yes... it has been like that for at least 30 years

Correction... since 1972, for the last 50 years.

[Jim Watson]

But it is entrenched in Internet Wisdom, ".38 Super is popular in Mexico because .45 ACP is not allowed."
It probably IS still popular, just not legal.

[TiroFijo]

But it is entrenched in Internet Wisdom, ".38 Super is popular in Mexico because .45 ACP is not allowed."
It probably IS still popular, just not legal.

I bet lots of people have hidden guns in Mexico, bought loong time ago. There are even 1911s registered as 22s because they have conversion kits and no one knows where the original 45/38 parts are... your were not required to surrender/inutilize/destroy them.

You cannot legally buy 7.62x51 or 5.56x45 ammo, but you can buy 308 Win and 223 Rem... If you have a 308 rifle and carry 7.62x51 ammo you can get detained and harassed.

You cannot legally buy 45, 40, 9mm, 38 super, 357 or 44 mag. And despite internet myths that's really a big issue since normal people really buy ammo through legal channels. The "not normal" users get and use whatever they want, of course.

Since the law is very poorly written, the 357 Sig is theoretically allowed (some people managed to register guns in this caliber in the past), but in practice the authority is very discretional and nobody will sell you ammo or guns in this caliber anymore.

That's why I think the .30 super will be a no-go in Mexico.

[Jim Watson]

That's why I think the .30 super will be a no-go in Mexico.

I doubt it crossed anybody's mind at Vista. Nor Italy.