We have all been repeatedly told that 9mm is just as good as .45 ACP blah blah blah and virtually all handgun cartridges are poor stoppers. So what then is the point of introducing another wildcat cartridge into the fray? WTFO!
We have all been repeatedly told that 9mm is just as good as .45 ACP blah blah blah and virtually all handgun cartridges are poor stoppers. So what then is the point of introducing another wildcat cartridge into the fray? WTFO!
It's the first week, give them a chance to spread it around. Internet gives us unrealistic expectations for new products.Originally Posted by Hambo
I thought about .30SC some more, and here's what I've got.
-It's higher pressure than .327
-Initial choices are an expensive 1911 or moderately priced S&W EZ. That's fucking weird. So either nobody else wanted a piece of this, or Federal pitched it to two wildly different companies, which is also weird.
-Assuming that a .327 Ruger is strong enough for .30SC, you could fit seven moon clipped .30s in a GP100; 8 in a Redhawk.
-Nobody comes up with good names anymore. Was .30 Atomic taken? .32 AutoMag?
Great Western had the .357 Atomic. There is probably still a copyright on Automag.
The interesting thing to me is that they are learning, like the .327 Federal, the .30 Federal Super Carry is not tied to a gun brand like .30 WCF, .45 ACP, and .40 S&W which competing companies have to rename.
Code Name: JET STREAM
I noticed the velocities listed in the graphics on the Guns & Ammo video: 100 HST @1205, and 115 GD @1095. Weren't those advertised at 1250 and 1150, respectively? I imagine the spec velocity is from a 4" barrel, and these were chrono results from one of the guns used in the video -- hopefully the Shield EZ, not the 5" 1911!
Let's say it's from the EZ, with a 3.675" barrel. That's .575 longer than the Shield Plus -- which does not bode well for velocities from the Plus. Extrapolating further velocity loss from a 3.1" barrel, and you arrive at ballistics solidly better than a .380, but not close to a proper 9mm.
This is unfortunate, because the Shield Plus is exactly the size of gun this lightweight, powder-puff, almost-9mm belongs in. I hope I'm wrong.
I hope @Tamara will get her hands on one soon-ish; @jetfire, too. The proof of the pudding is in the eating, so they say.
As an aside, the current S & W product page for the Shield-EZ shows the .30 Super Carry models as having an MSRP premium of $2 over the 9mm variant; if the ammunition is similar, it will be a pretty negligable added expense for even a dedicated user.
https://www.smith-wesson.com/subcategory/mp-shield-ez
"If I ever needed to hunt in a tuxedo, then this would be the rifle I'd take." - okie john
"Not being able to govern events, I govern myself." - Michel De Montaigne
As long as terminal ballistics performance is solidly better than .380, and can meet the FBI minimum, I am not bothered by it not matching the paper specs.
I'm ignoring the marketing, and waiting for real world evaluation on its performance. Which will have to wait for it to actually show up in the wild.
Looks like the .30 SC models have a slightly extended base pad on the magazine compared to the 9mm. Looks like they had to cheat a little to get that 10th round in.
It appears to me that there's a big gap between the underpowered mousegun ACP's like .25, .32, and .380 that won't make minimums (plus the various .22 rimfires), and the .357 service cartridges like the .38 or 9mm.
While this may not be it, it's still an area that could use a bit of research.
"You win 100% of the fights you avoid. If you're not there when it happens, you don't lose." - William Aprill
"I've owned a guitar for 31 years and that sure hasn't made me a musician, let alone an expert. It's made me a guy who owns a guitar."- BBI
-M&P12 exists to serve a non market
Judging by the continued success of the various KelTec iterations and and Turkish bullpup offerings, it might not be market [B]you[B] are interested in, but there is a market
No, nobody is interested in Turkshit shotguns. The lack of everything and Remington's shutdown during 2020 is the only reason the market exists. I can promise nobody buys Turkish shotguns and doesn't regret it. They make Mossberg Mavericks look like Perazzis.
-M&P 10mm exists to serve a non market
Again, judging by the amount of offerings from companies up and down the price scale, there is a market that caters to the perceived advantages of 10mm, even if it doesn't appeal to you
A lot of people talk about 10mm. A lot of people don't buy the 10mm they talk about. The whole cartridge is held up by the Glock 20/29/40 and I can guarantee there will never be a 10mm revival for Smith to benefit from.
-M&P9FS Accuracy
Legit issue, that had me switch Glocks over M&Ps, but that is not a QC issue, it is a spec issue. With the amount of changes on the 2.0s, and the fact there is a known fix, S&W has decided the accuracy is sufficient. And it is just as accurate as any other gun in the majority of both civilian and professional users hands
If your service 9mm Glock-killer can't group past 15 yards, it's poor quality control period.
-CSX purposely gimped on release
What do you mean by this?
No optic and no rail that will be released in a Performance Center release. In fairness, Glock is equally guilty of this
-Obsession with porting defensive pistols
That is not a QC issue, that's features you dont prefer and are not standard
That's a S&W has it's head up it's own butt. Porting is ideal for big honking magnums, not service calibers.
-A "9mm Killer" like the .356TSW or .40S&W..... I mean .30 Super
.40 S&W did pretty much kill 9mm for a time, in certain cases, then circumstances changed to make 9mm appealing. .356 TSW was made for a specific niche that got eliminated before it ever made it to market. That being competition, with some appeal to duty use if it was successful. The .30 SC is targeted toward the broadest and largest segment, the same segment that Micro9s have been dominant, and has some theoretical advantages that appeal to that segment.
It will be a .357Sig .45GAP or .41AE. It provides no tangible advantage to it's competitors except for the Fudd crowd who drools over ft-lbs of energy instead of penetration and expansion.
Fixing Smith would require minimal effort with regards to what the market actually wants with better internal QC checks.
But they are currently selling every gun they make, likely with minimum complaints, and doing that might move them out of the coveted '50ish bucks cheaper than a Glock' which would also probably hurt their agency sales too.
Just because the market is hot now, does not mean products are good.
They could make limited edition 5906 and 4506 in vaporwave pastel packaging so people can LARP Miami Vice and they would sell more than M&P 10mms.
Ah, so you want the Cohen Sig business model, but applied to 3rd Gen Smith's. Because that is what you would get.
People want parts for their 3rd Gen brick craphouses, no locks on revolvers, and current quality problems fixed. I would guarantee S&W would sell 1,000 5906 reissues before they will sell off 1,000 .30Supers or M&P12s.
That’ll be the new .30 Carry, introduced when everyone decides the .30 Super Carry is too blasty and no easier to shoot than a 9mm. ;-)
Agree that “Easier to shoot in a small gun than 9mm, better performance than .380.” would seem to make a lot of sense.
The .30 Carry could also be called the .30 reguL, paying homage to cutting edge European pistol cartridges of yesteryear.
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