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Thread: Bill Wilson and Ken Hackathon's Crystal Ball Predictions

  1. #421
    Deadeye Dick Clusterfrack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GJM View Post
    Once a shooter has a grasp of trigger, grip and stance, isn't it all vision?
    If we expand trigger, grip, and stance beyond a static definition, maybe? I'm pasting something I wrote a while back that explains how I think about it:

    ...there are many reasons for a miss, and only one of them is trigger mechanics:
    https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....60#post1363360

    1. Trigger mechanics: trigger pull moves sights off target
    2a. Recoil control: arms move sights off target in an attempt to control recoil
    2b. Recoil timing: you attempt to time the recoil cycle of the gun, but press the trigger at the wrong time.
    3a. Transition timing: you pull off the target before the gun is finished shooting it, or shoot before the gun has arrived on target
    3b. Transition damping: your transition wasn't 'critically damped', and you overshoot the target.
    4a. Sight alignment: sights misaligned
    4b. Sight placement: sights aligned but aimed wrong (usually looking at the wrong place on the target)
    5. Vision: focus or eye dominance. Looking at the sights through the wrong eye.
    “There is no growth in the comfort zone.”--Jocko Willink
    "You can never have too many knives." --Joe Ambercrombie

  2. #422
    Member JHC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JHC View Post
    In each of I think three YT videos where RDS sights for carry is touched on, Hackathorn says "if you're one of the 1 percenters that shoot weekly or more and dry fire frequently and consistently then rock on." Instead of butt hurt, RDS aficionados might take that as a compliment.


    During most of the past year I've been dry firing training my draw and index with a 407 CO almost daily and shooting it predominantly in live fire weekly or very close to weekly. It's mad fun and I saw significant advantages to precision at 15 and 25 yards both slow fire and under time pressure. It was a damn "easy button" that leaves you grinning ear to ear.

    I went back and forth on carrying it. Sometimes I did but if I had a bad range session where I fumbled my index a lot I'd switch off of it until remedial work from the draw got me back on track.

    I figured I was one of the one percenters that should be good to go.

    During the period of Thanksgiving through Christmas '23 travel and family events disrupted my regimen of dry fire and live fire and coming off of that into the new year I found my dot index to have suffered badly.

    I got back to work to get it up to speed but a few other considerations occurred to me in recent weeks.

    My index needs to be right on, like really on point, for my first hit from the holster at speed at 5 and 7 yards to match irons. If it's off and I have to shift to irons (excellent co-witness with .315 high vis front sight), I loose a few tenths of seconds in that OODA process. If I don't shift to irons and try and shoot the window, results sucked.

    All of this is for my square range free style and SHO.

    This engagement range encompasses the vast majority of civilian self defense events. I very much prefer to have long pistol range capability and I do with irons and the RDS, just more so with the RDS.

    I've heard way more advanced dot shooters than I say they're still a tick faster with irons up close, but prefer the greater capability of the RDS in other ways (range, low light, movement etc). Cool. One explained that close and very fast iron shooting lets you "cheat" your index as you see the entire slide/sights aligning in the draw towards full index.

    Hold that thought.

    If my index is spot on my 5 or 7 yard shots at speed can match my irons. On days when the index is off, then the irons are more consistently quick for good hits.

    How good is my index going to be if I've taken an incoming round to one of my forearms? Or elsewhere. Or if a family member has grabbed a hold of me in panic contrary to our SOP?

    I could do endless scenarios where I'll take the "cheating" of the iron sighted pistol presentation for the ranges I'm most like to be really in the shit.

    So these issues have made me realize that

    A. maybe I'm not a one percenter after all

    B. I've got some preferred venues for the RDS G47 but it's not necessarily primary daily concealed carry.

    C. I've got more work to do on "Dot/No Dot" drills which is a way to shorten that OODA penalty of expecting the dot and not immediatly finding it.

    Back to Hackathorn vids, his definitions of the one percenters vs Joe average gun owner is pretty plain. One trains a LOT and the other doesn't "train" so much as go out to shoot a few times a year.

    After my year of a lot of work with my RDS - then considering the conditions under which I'd like to "cheat" my index at close range, I don't see any controversy at all.

    I have to revisit this post. @backtrail540

    How I learned to stop obsessing over my index to the dot:

    I got an idea of how to compare my irons vs dot performance with a less than perfect index. G47 with irons vs G47 with 407CO optic.

    My test was to fire each configuration, 20 shots in two sets of 10 shots, SHO, drawing to a single shot on a B8 at 7 yards. Holster would be OWB and firing grip would be established in the holster to remove any variability from missing a grip on one of the repetitions.

    The SHO D1s give me a less than excellent index.

    So I scored them for time and points on the B8.

    I was trying to push the speed, firing just as fast as I felt I had the feedback to make a good shot.

    As I expected average time for all 20 irons was faster than the average for all 20 dot. By a whopping slightly over a tenth of a second. I did not expect it to be that close.

    Scores on the B8 were not so close. The irons average score was 8.5 with multiple 6's and 7's. The red dots average was 9.5, with zero 6's only one 7 and one 8. Average well in the B8 black.

    Based on some ideas for stats KevinB offered to compare "center of bell curve" by tossing two fasted and two slowest for each and the speed gap tightened even further. Then only count what it took to get a 10 or a 9 hit and the time differential was down to three hundreths of a second.

    @HCM - this was around the time you were offering additional feedback about the experience transitioning to dots across tens of thousands of Federal agents. Similar to what you've posted on here but it "clicked" (12 o'clock - dip). Thanks!

    I was impressed enough by this little experiment I raced out and got a G26 MOS and EPS set up.
    “Remember, being healthy is basically just dying as slowly as possible,” Ricky Gervais

  3. #423
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    Quote Originally Posted by JHC View Post
    I have to revisit this post. @backtrail540

    How I learned to stop obsessing over my index to the dot:

    I got an idea of how to compare my irons vs dot performance with a less than perfect index. G47 with irons vs G47 with 407CO optic.

    My test was to fire each configuration, 20 shots in two sets of 10 shots, SHO, drawing to a single shot on a B8 at 7 yards. Holster would be OWB and firing grip would be established in the holster to remove any variability from missing a grip on one of the repetitions.

    The SHO D1s give me a less than excellent index.

    So I scored them for time and points on the B8.

    I was trying to push the speed, firing just as fast as I felt I had the feedback to make a good shot.

    As I expected average time for all 20 irons was faster than the average for all 20 dot. By a whopping slightly over a tenth of a second. I did not expect it to be that close.

    Scores on the B8 were not so close. The irons average score was 8.5 with multiple 6's and 7's. The red dots average was 9.5, with zero 6's only one 7 and one 8. Average well in the B8 black.

    Based on some ideas for stats KevinB offered to compare "center of bell curve" by tossing two fasted and two slowest for each and the speed gap tightened even further. Then only count what it took to get a 10 or a 9 hit and the time differential was down to three hundreths of a second.

    @HCM - this was around the time you were offering additional feedback about the experience transitioning to dots across tens of thousands of Federal agents. Similar to what you've posted on here but it "clicked" (12 o'clock - dip). Thanks!

    I was impressed enough by this little experiment I raced out and got a G26 MOS and EPS set up.
    Have you done any time comparisons with the G26 to the 47? You’ve done a lot with small pistols so I am curious. thank you.

  4. #424
    Did all the recent videos get pulled? I can’t seem to find them on the WC YouTube channel anymore. The only one I see now is the original one from October 2022 where Hackathorn was alone and talked about red dots.

  5. #425
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    Quote Originally Posted by WobblyPossum View Post
    Did all the recent videos get pulled? I can’t seem to find them on the WC YouTube channel anymore. The only one I see now is the original one from October 2022 where Hackathorn was alone and talked about red dots.
    https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL...tfIvpw9_yD2tZg


    Looks like they might have. Wow.

    Maybe they realized they were talking people out of buying their future products.

  6. #426
    Site Supporter Trooper224's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noah View Post
    https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL...tfIvpw9_yD2tZg


    Looks like they might have.

    Maybe they realized they were talking people out of buying their future products.
    Maybe someone finally convinced them to stay in their lane.
    We may lose and we may win, but we will never be here again.......

  7. #427
    Member JHC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric_L View Post
    Have you done any time comparisons with the G26 to the 47? You’ve done a lot with small pistols so I am curious. thank you.
    Nothing highly structured head to head. But I do routinely benchmark on a couple “go to” drills. I reviewed my album of “I love me targets” in recent months and on 7 yard F2S and 25 yard D1’s there is no difference. All the performance of time and hits between the two completely overlap. For me that’s Dark Pin level F2S at 7 ~2 second 25 yard D1’s to an alpha at 25.

    The dot makes the small gun shoot like the big gun in the case of the 26 and 47 in my hands.

    Recently I shot a reduced round count standard from 5 to 25 yards that Kevin B designed. The 26 out shot the 47 by one hit. I’m confident it’s my pinkie sabotage as the 26 was all shot with the flat baseplate.
    “Remember, being healthy is basically just dying as slowly as possible,” Ricky Gervais

  8. #428
    Quote Originally Posted by JHC View Post
    Nothing highly structured head to head. But I do routinely benchmark on a couple “go to” drills. I reviewed my album of “I love me targets” in recent months and on 7 yard F2S and 25 yard D1’s there is no difference. All the performance of time and hits between the two completely overlap. For me that’s Dark Pin level F2S at 7 ~2 second 25 yard D1’s to an alpha at 25.

    The dot makes the small gun shoot like the big gun in the case of the 26 and 47 in my hands.

    Recently I shot a reduced round count standard from 5 to 25 yards that Kevin B designed. The 26 out shot the 47 by one hit. I’m confident it’s my pinkie sabotage as the 26 was all shot with the flat baseplate.
    Just get rid of the pinkie. It isn't too bad, promise.

  9. #429
    Member JHC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by breakingtime91 View Post
    Just get rid of the pinkie. It isn't too bad, promise.
    I almost made a wisecrack about exactly that but then, thought it would be in poor taste. 😉
    “Remember, being healthy is basically just dying as slowly as possible,” Ricky Gervais

  10. #430
    Quote Originally Posted by JHC View Post
    I almost made a wisecrack about exactly that but then, thought it would be in poor taste. 😉

    Humor at my own expense and gallows humor is my second language.

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