Bill Wilson and Ken Hackathon's Crystal Ball Predictions

[HCM]

Again with the assumption that that he hasn't put in the work.

Based on both my own experience and my experiences training experienced iron sight shooters transitioning to the dot at work, his statements in the video are exactly what they (and I) said before "getting over the hump." I literally used to be that guy and I know it when I hear it.


Speaking of that hump, based on both my own experiences training new shooters and those of three LE Academies I'm aware of, new shooters do not experience that hump and starting them on Dots followed by irons results in them becoming competent with irons faster as well. This mirrors the U.S. Army's experiences with Dots on carbines.

[Rocky Racoon]

The techniques being taught were outdated and not found to be as effective as some of the more recently accepted techniques.

I’ve taken one class fro Ken Hackathorn. I enjoyed it but not because of the instruction received. I just liked talking to the man and picking his brain about gun stuff. Ken Hackathorn is a national treasure because he’s seen and done so much and his knowledge base is enormous. He’s not a national treasure because he’s the best instructor around.

I've never met the man.

And I don't disagree with what you wrote.

I do think it's strange that for a national treasure we are quick to dogpile on him because he's perhaps behind the times on RDS. We are seemingly convinced he hasn't put in the work and is incapable of evolving. Maybe he hasn't put in the work. And maybe he is too old to evolve. But we don't know. It's possible he has put in the work and is capable of evolving, but still doesn't like RDS.

Either way, so what? State your opinion once and drive on. He's not stopping anyone from carrying anything. But no. Can't do that. Got to flog this to death and keep flogging. Make sure everyone knows you never liked Hackathorn in the first place.

If I've hit a nerve and feel the need to attack me, then yeah, I might be on to something.

[HCM]

Yes. Those issues can be rectified with training, etc, but "we" are not the people he is referencing. He's talking about the cop that draws his pistol on annual qual day and who has to knock the dust bunny and french fry off of the sights before firing the first shot and the person without the technical ability to maintain a 1911.

I believe the new generation of closed emitter optics, cross-bolt/weaver/ 1913-ish mounting and factory direct milled guns will make RDS pistols no more "fiddly" than adjustable rear sights on a blued revolver. Of course nothing is cop-proof.

PS- In GA wouldn't it be a boiled peanut stuck to the rear sight via dried Coca Cola ?

[RJ]

One thing Hackathorn didn’t mention at all about dots is that they’re one of the best dryfire diagnostic tools out there, and it might be that he didn’t notice because he has such a good trigger press that the dot didn’t show him how he was screwing up like it did for me.

Same here. I recently started doing dry practice using a course of drills centered around Steve Anderson's Refinement and Repetition book. In evaluating my shot picture at the time the timer goes off, I see/do not see the dot and only "count" my rep as good if I have a good sight picture. It's really helped me a lot.

For people like me, average at best shooters transitioning to dots as a medical necessity with aging eyes, the improvement in the quality of my dry practice has been one of the more surprising benefits of using a dot.

[Hambo]

Strange thread in one way.

Seems like it wasn't long ago that folks said fawningly "Hack is getting old and cutting back on classes. Go train with this national treasure while you can before we are diminished."

But now that he went against PF conventional wisdom regarding RDSs, he's an old man yelling at the clouds and folks are dogpiling on him?

In another way it's not a strange thread since groupthink is strong in this forum.

I just hope Scott Reitz hurries up and puts a dot on his 1911. I'd hate to see yall try to cancel him too.

Lighten up, Francis. I used to spend a fair amount of time with Ken, and what's in his head is a national treasure. However, regular YouTube videos predictably head downhill. The video of Ken/Bill talking about the Registered Models and Shooting Masters is gold. Their click bait crystal ball, not so much. At one time he was a regular in American Handgunner, and I recall him saying that he told the editor that he would run out of material and that the gig would have a finite life. He has probably said the same about this video series.

I am very glad that someone decided to get Bill, Ken, and Mas on camera, but I would rather Ken became a regular on Forgotten Weapons.

To me, these videos are preservation projects. Too often I find that younger people, including shooters, seem to have no idea about the past beyond their own memory. Although I doubt they're intended that way, these videos are a preservation project, and that's their greatest value. Ken is a great guy, and off camera I'll bet he'd say that some videos were just to keep the ball rolling.

ETA: I've got a Holosun coming, and I'll do whatever I need to do to sort it out.

[Jared]

I've never met the man.

And I don't disagree with what you wrote.

I do think it's strange that for a national treasure we are quick to dogpile on him because he's perhaps behind the times on RDS. We are seemingly convinced he hasn't put in the work and is incapable of evolving. Maybe he hasn't put in the work. And maybe he is too old to evolve. But we don't know. It's possible he has put in the work and is capable of evolving, but still doesn't like RDS.

Either way, so what? State your opinion once and drive on. He's not stopping anyone from carrying anything. But no. Can't do that. Got to flog this to death and keep flogging. Make sure everyone knows you never liked Hackathorn in the first place.

If I've hit a nerve and feel the need to attack me, then yeah, I might be on to something.

I took him to task over some of the remarks in the video and I don’t have a single pistol with an RDS on it.

For me, watching the video, it wasn’t just the RDS thing. There were some snide little comments about how the pistol has to be pointed at your junk to be “cool” and other unnecessary bullshit like that. I get it, they don’t like Instagram celebrities, for that matter I really don’t either. My solution is to not have an Instagram account. Maybe if it bothers them so much they should try my approach.

But what that video was, when I watched it, was 23 minutes of bellyaching about the new trends, right up until time to plug things Wilson Combat was selling. I mean, the pistol mounted RDS is unnecessary but the Wilson P320 grip module is a game changer? Gimme a break.

Here’s the thing, no one is unassailable. Ken may be a national treasure, but that doesn’t make him infallible. It also doesn’t mean he can’t be questioned. It doesn’t mean he can’t be flat wrong.

And I’ll say it for the third time: I respect both of these guys for what they’ve contributed to the industry and the craft. I don’t think this particular video is their finest hour.

[JHC]

I took him to task over some of the remarks in the video and I don’t have a single pistol with an RDS on it.

For me, watching the video, it wasn’t just the RDS thing. There were some snide little comments about how the pistol has to be pointed at your junk to be “cool” and other unnecessary bullshit like that. I get it, they don’t like Instagram celebrities, for that matter I really don’t either. My solution is to not have an Instagram account. Maybe if it bothers them so much they should try my approach.

But what that video was, when I watched it, was 23 minutes of bellyaching about the new trends, right up until time to plug things Wilson Combat was selling. I mean, the pistol mounted RDS is unnecessary but the Wilson P320 grip module is a game changer? Gimme a break.

Here’s the thing, no one is unassailable. Ken may be a national treasure, but that doesn’t make him infallible. It also doesn’t mean he can’t be questioned. It doesn’t mean he can’t be flat wrong.

And I’ll say it for the third time: I respect both of these guys for what they’ve contributed to the industry and the craft. I don’t think this particular video is their finest hour.

They were quite complimentary in the whole segment about the highly impactful pistols (365, 320/M17, Staccato). That was a good long bit of the video. I was impressed they emphasized the improvements that resulted in the Staccato's success and impact; on a Wilson Combat video. I give them props for that.

As far as Hack busting people's balls for junk carry of an optic sighted Staccato P with a WML - the context of Hack is he speaks extremely candidly and will dunk on folks old school. He said it to our faces that if we didn't own at least one 1911 (I didn't at the time and raised my hand) we were a "Communist [expletive]". To those who dry fired 30 minutes every day "Get a [expletive] life!"

To me that was the charm of the discussion. Very much like being in a class with him during the breaks. Except for the lack of F-bombs which is a whole 'nuther Ken story.

[CCT125US]

Seems like it wasn't long ago that folks said fawningly "Hack is getting old and cutting back on classes. Go train with this national treasure while you can before we are diminished."

But now that he went against PF conventional wisdom regarding RDSs, he's an old man yelling at the clouds and folks are dogpiling on him?

In another way it's not a strange thread since groupthink is strong in this forum.

Initially I felt like a heretic. Following the class several years ago, it was as if all the desire to shoot was knocked out of me. The trainer, the one everyone suggested, was not up to task, it was ugly. I eventually reached out to @ToddG and we traded some messages. Once I posted some thoughts, others began to question. Not in an accusatory way, but just running some things by me, seeing if it matched up. It was very enlightening to see the public vs private opinion of him. He lost his luster many years ago.

[JCN]

But now that he went against PF conventional wisdom regarding RDSs, he's an old man yelling at the clouds and folks are dogpiling on him?

I think that’s probably the first time anyone has suggested I have any sort of conventional PF wisdom….

Hehehehe.

[SouthNarc]

They need red dots but can’t swallow the pride long enough to work the learning curve to realize the benefits.

Can you expand on this?