100%Originally Posted by Clusterfrack
Too often I’ve seen dot shooters do the shimmy n’ shake in search of some feedback. Never seen an iron shooter do it. Which of course will be pointed out that does not mean it hasn’t happened.
100%
Too often I’ve seen dot shooters do the shimmy n’ shake in search of some feedback. Never seen an iron shooter do it. Which of course will be pointed out that does not mean it hasn’t happened.
Taking a break from social media.
The dot is far far less forgiving of missing your index, which would probably be easier to do in a real world fight than anything you could ever do on the square range.
Has anyone considered a system like the ACSS Vulcan as a possible solution to this shortcoming?
This applies to returning the gun after recoil as well. For example, driving the gun back on target from SHO with a jacked grip or awkward position is easier with irons.
“There is no growth in the comfort zone.”--Jocko Willink
"You can never have too many knives." --Joe Ambercrombie
I think there's a hundred different hints and tells that you're forced to pay attention to shooting target focused irons.
I think they're still there with a dot but as you have a much better alignment aid handy they can get lost in the mix. I think some people are more susceptible to this than others, whether because of vision differences or just process differences.
Yes, I tried it on my practice match gun. I think it’s a brilliant invention. Unfortunately, the ACSS circle only comes in a small window optic with a chevron reticle. For a defensive gun, I like it.
“There is no growth in the comfort zone.”--Jocko Willink
"You can never have too many knives." --Joe Ambercrombie
They make an ACSS 509 (though at one point it was aluminum with a different mount or something crazy?) As well as the RMR size 407C and the small 407K. The upcoming Primary Arms RS15 (DPP footprint, large window) will also have it. The 407K one is a dot not a chevron.
I think a major difference between the two sighting systems is iron sights are continuous shades of gray where the dot is a more binary, yes/no.
With irons at close range, you can be front sight or target focused, with the sights perfectly aligned, grossly misaligned or in between, and none of that will stop you from firing a shot and likely hitting a generous target. If the dot is out of the window, for less experienced shooters that may be a stop sign moment where they either freeze or start looking FOR the dot with a bunch of wrist articulation.
Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.
I think it is highly debatable when talking about irons. I think that Stoeger has an outsized influence on this subject and his take on target focusing with irons has gone a bit unchallenged. Yes, he is a great shooter and he won 8 Nats over his career. There's a dude who won four last year alone shooting with a front sight focus. He just doesn't youtube much. Another notion that has been going unchallenged is that shooting dots (target focus) improves your irons shooting. My observations, from my own shooting and seeing many good dot shooters venturing into irons divisions off season, have been that shooting dots improves index with irons but overall irons performance often times takes a hit.
Doesn't read posts longer than two paragraphs.
I think what GJM said about dots being binary and irons gray in regards to presentation/sight picture also applies to visual focus. That's partially what I meant when I said it is a very flexible technique. Visual point of focus with irons is more of a continuum than binary. I might be looking at a spot on the target, but the shot might require me to just be looking for "red fiber touching Visual spot" vs "black edge of sight above fiber centered with rear and touching spot".
A dot sort of takes the whole alignment aspect out of the equation.
Vision is also very individual.
At the beginning of the city's Pitbull Plague of 2000-2010 I got charged by one from behind.
I was knocking on a door when my partner yelped and went past me in a blue blur. I turned and saw the dog closing at full speed, drew and point shot one handed at about 10 feet. The bullet smashed a shoulder joint but he kept coming. I got a two hand grip, fired twice more and the dog face planted at my feet.
To this day I distinctly remember catching the front sight in my vision in mid arc as it lifted on the first shot, tracking it into the notch and watching it lift between the next two shots. Both of those went lengthwise through the center of his body.
My partner, who had(finally)stopped running, said it sounded like bang-bangbang.
Imho, all three of those would have been unsighted shots with an optic. The combination of surprise, sudden movement, a reactive draw to a rapidly moving target at a decreasing downward angle, transitioning from a one handed to a two handed grip and changing from target focus to sight focus between shots...the range was very close but the shots needed to be fairly precise and fast.
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