In case anyone has the time for a lengthy discussion on the state of LE….
https://youtu.be/I0vpT8DBh3c
In case anyone has the time for a lengthy discussion on the state of LE….
https://youtu.be/I0vpT8DBh3c
- It's not the odds, it's the stakes.
- If you aren't dry practicing every week, you're not serious.....
- "Tache-Psyche Effect - a polite way of saying 'You suck.' " - GG
Thanks for sharing this
Some difficult and occasionally uncomfortable realities being confronted in that discussion- well worth the time to listen.
Agreed, it was a good listen. I do wish DB was able to stick around longer.Originally Posted by Archer1440
David S.
Very interesting discussion. Needs to be had more often. I've had these discussions before with friends and family following "controversial" Police use of force incidents. Their viewpoints are usually informed by a complete misapprehension of the facts and the law. I saw a little bit of that here, but that's why it's important to have these discussions.
I'm in agreement with John, Erick and Daryll that most of these "bad shootings" boil down to bad training. A smaller subset consist of Darylls trifecta of "negligent hiring, negligent training, negligent retention". And some of these tragedies are just a horrifically tragic confluence of events, with no real "wrongdoing" on anyone's part. If a kid chases a ball down the driveway into the street and there's no car coming....everything's fine. If a car is driving down that street and no one's playing ball in the street, everything's fine. Put those two things together at the right time and you have tragedy. There's no moral "fault"...but its definitely a tragedy.
I have been beating my head against the administrative wall for almost four years in my current position, trying to get people to understand the need for improved training and higher performance standards. I've been not only ignored, I've been actively undermined....including by some of our departments "firearms instructors". The kind who like wearing the red hat and sitting in the office drinking coffee and playing video games....who aren't interested in teaching or coaching. Frankly because they don't know how.
This situation is being increasingly made worse by the shift in policy and training priorities driven by the "defund the police" movement. I share Karl and Coles concerns about state power, and I agree that "accountability" is important in incidents where the police fuck up. Karl seems overly focused on criminal culpability for the individuals involved in the incident, to me. These type of incidents are as I said, often driven by poor training and poor policy. And forget about the Total Immunity granted to judges and prosecutors. No LE administrator who makes decisions with easily foreseeable outcomes that they were repeatedly warned about is EVER held liable in any way. Hell....theyre rarely ever even removed from their positions. That's some accountability I'd personally like to see.
A personal pet peeve: yes, Karl...the police are civilians. I never use that term to refer to citizens. We in LE are not subject to the UCMJ, we are sworn employees of local, state or federal government. But we're ALL civilians....just like our fellow citizens. My annoyance with my fellow citizens arises from their continued wilfull ignorance, during a time when information is free and widely available.
A final point. The discussion revolved around increasing citizen distrust of LE. I agree this is a problematic trend. The less discussed, and even more problematic trend I'm seeing is the increasing LE distrust of the public. Not the portion of society that generates criminal complaints. I'm talking about the "law abiding" majority. The last two years have really accelerated this trend. Defunding, staffing crisis', politically driven prosecutions, the election of openly anti police politicians. It's bad when the public doesn't trust its police.....what happens when the police (the "armed agents of the state") don't trust or even like their fellow citizens anymore. This is the trend that frightens the crap out of me.
"And some of these tragedies are just a horrifically tragic confluence of events, with no real "wrongdoing" on anyone's part."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjcdanUhmSY
Facts matter...Feelings Can Lie
Exactly. Fucked up beyond belief....but not "wrongdoing".
To introduce Captain Obvious here: The guy who flipped out and started flailing his way through the store committed wrongdoing, and is in large part responsible (depending, I suppose, on his mental condition) for the girl’s death.
I was gratified by the disagreements and debate. Kudo's to P&S for assembling the different points of view.
“Remember, being healthy is basically just dying as slowly as possible,” Ricky Gervais
Anything from P&S always starts out as "I don't have 3 hours" and goes to "holy crap I just sat here for 3 hours"
Tons of good stuff here, in addition to the police discussion Chuck hits some excellent points on conscious and unconscious competence in regards to the shot process starting around the 2:49:00 mark
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