In-store LE response to black clad pick axe equipped liquor thief

[Lost River]

I will neither confirm nor deny that such conversations have happened here in Texas, too.

Yep, cost-versus-benefit analysis.

The revolver comment was merely a sliver of the conversation, but the fact that the conversations have taken place more than a couple times as our social circle has gathered is a serious shift in the norm. 15 years ago, I doubt I would have had such a talk more than once. I explained criminal investigation/forensic evidence procedures as well as what happens when a case is brought before a deputy prosecutor for review (why things take so long). Conversations went in circles around clearances and being in other parts of the world doing the Lords Work.

For a guy who is making 250+ a year doing something, somewhere, I can understand not wanting to be benched over some BS deal, waiting for someone to say its a clean shoot. Plus the uncertainty if he is going to lose his livelihood/clearance, if he gets criminally charged and has to defend himself. Even if he beats the charges, he is likely to be out of a job. So I while I do not publicly condone where some of the conversations went, I certainly understand for the guys who are still working on the dark side, their train of thought.

[Joe in PNG]

Historically, vigilante justice turns into tribal jungle justice super, super quick.

Once the mob starts lynching people, they tend to not care too much that they're lynching the right perp.

From there, it's not a big leap for the people of the wrongly lynched person to go for a bit of classical payback- and they don't necessarily have to get the actual person responsible. Family is close enough.

We have enough of this shite in PNG. You don't want it starting up again in the US.

[1slow]

Historically, vigilante justice turns into tribal jungle justice super, super quick.

Once the mob starts lynching people, they tend to not care too much that they're lynching the right perp.

From there, it's not a big leap for the people of the wrongly lynched person to go for a bit of classical payback- and they don't necessarily have to get the actual person responsible. Family is close enough.

We have enough of this shite in PNG. You don't want it starting up again in the US.

AGREED !

[45dotACP]

Historically, vigilante justice turns into tribal jungle justice super, super quick.

Once the mob starts lynching people, they tend to not care too much that they're lynching the right perp.

From there, it's not a big leap for the people of the wrongly lynched person to go for a bit of classical payback- and they don't necessarily have to get the actual person responsible. Family is close enough.

We have enough of this shite in PNG. You don't want it starting up again in the US.

Given the fact that wrongful convictions get overturned for capital crimes even in this country where we have a sophisticated law enforcement apparatus, I'd be very hesitant to just willingly hand control of the enforcement of law and order to the mob.

Because if you think there are wrongful convictions with the police then hoo boy will it get ugly when those enforcing the law have absolutely no sense of detachment, neutrality or professionalism

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[Lex Luthier]

Given the fact that wrongful convictions get overturned for capital crimes even in this country where we have a sophisticated law enforcement apparatus, I'd be very hesitant to just willingly hand control of the enforcement of law and order to the mob.

Because if you think there are wrongful convictions with the police then hoo boy will it get ugly when those enforcing the law have absolutely no sense of detachment, neutrality or professionalism

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Hence my comment upthread about gangsters, warlords, etc.

The folks who think they can put a lid on this manifestation of Pandora's box and come out on top are either idiots, sociopaths, or a combination of the two.

[Kyle Reese]

Hence my comment upthread about gangsters, warlords, etc.

The folks who think they can put a lid on this manifestation of Pandora's box and come out on top are either idiots, sociopaths, or a combination of the two.

We’ve been assured that those tasked with law-encouragement will be social workers, who will get it right where the police are getting it all wrong. [emoji854]

I recently had that very conversation with a family acquaintance, who felt very strongly that “militarized” police need to be defunded, and more social outreach and conflict de-escalation training needs to happen with sworn LE, as well as social workers being dispatched to “routine” calls for service.


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[DrkBlue]

Nationally, but that’s because places like Chicago and Detroit etc are skewing the numbers.

Most places you would actually want to live have clearance rates of 80% or more.

There are a number of factors that go into this including “stop snitching” culture and the available resources applied in the early stages of the crime as detailed here:

https://www.ojp.gov/pdffiles1/jr000243b.pdf

I agree.
My metro area, under 1 million, had a 20% murder bump in 2020. With people being locked up with their families and the financial implications from COVID, I was pleasantly surprised with a moderate increase😲. 2021 numbers will be lower and back to par.

Clearance rate also dropped in 2020 to the 65-70% range, but that seemed to be mostly a fluke. Had a some transnational influence.

On the whole, we have a 85-90% clearance rate, unless the bad guys cross into Mexico or otherwise permanently depart with no forwarding address. Not many whodunnits over the years.

That is part of why walking away seems so questionable. We had a murder a few miles away from my home that went to trial. The likely bad guy got off, but that one went to trial on circumstantial evidence after 5000+ hours or so invested in the investigation plus 1000hrs trial prep. There is way more technological and video evidence now than then. I am amazed at the datasets that are available these days…