Where will optics and sights for handguns go next?

[Clusterfrack]

... I really hope the future of the dots is reliability. This is the most important thing IMO. Ironically this is not a concern to a lot of timmies because they don’t really shoot much and from their perspective a delta point pro is bulletproof.

I agree. Reliability, durability, and standardization are my priorities. However, while the high-end of PMOs will almost certainly please us in P-F, I have a different prediction about the broader market. PMOs will become ubiquitous, but will be like High Points not Glocks. New buyers will want a PMO, but won't want to pay an extra $400. The result: a sock-drawer gun with a Yeet-Dot that won't hold zero, or will go dark after 2 shots.

Timmy thoughts:
Bizarrely, my vision is still really good and I have no problem shooting irons. And even it weren't, I prefer target focus with blurry iron sights. I may carry my new P-07/509t2 when I'm in the backcountry--because why not? But for 95% of my CCW needs, I have no plans to add the bulk and complexity of a PMO. If that makes me a unicorn or a dinosaur, so be it.

CO:
I promised my USPSA mentor that I would shoot CO for the off season. I agree with @cheby that it's fun. As my former coach predicted, I've learned a lot by shooting CO. And it is fun. But, it's also been a total pain in the ass: 4 broken or malfunctioning PMOs, rain in the emitter, having to check zero all the effing time, mag extensions that barely fit 23, etc. The SRO I have now seems to be solid, so far. But, I am not planning on buying a backup gun. I hate equipment that's on the bleeding edge, and CO still feels that way.

[cheby]

PMOs will become ubiquitous, but will be like High Points not Glocks. New buyers will want a PMO, but won't want to pay an extra $400. The result: a sock-drawer gun with a Yeet-Dot that won't hold zero, or will go dark after 2 shots.

100%. We are already there.

[BillSWPA]

I agree. Reliability, durability, and standardization are my priorities. However, while the high-end of PMOs will almost certainly please us in P-F, I have a different prediction about the broader market. PMOs will become ubiquitous, but will be like High Points not Glocks. New buyers will want a PMO, but won't want to pay an extra $400. The result: a sock-drawer gun with a Yeet-Dot that won't hold zero, or will go dark after 2 shots.

Timmy thoughts:
Bizarrely, my vision is still really good and I have no problem shooting irons. And even it weren't, I prefer target focus with blurry iron sights. I may carry my new P-07/509t2 when I'm in the backcountry--because why not? But for 95% of my CCW needs, I have no plans to add the bulk and complexity of a PMO. If that makes me a unicorn or a dinosaur, so be it.

CO:
I promised my USPSA mentor that I would shoot CO for the off season. I agree with @cheby that it's fun. As my former coach predicted, I've learned a lot by shooting CO. And it is fun. But, it's also been a total pain in the ass: 4 broken or malfunctioning PMOs, rain in the emitter, having to check zero all the effing time, mag extensions that barely fit 23, etc. The SRO I have now seems to be solid, so far. But, I am not planning on buying a backup gun. I hate equipment that's on the bleeding edge, and CO still feels that way.

Which ones broke or malfunctioned?


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[Sig_Fiend]

The result: a sock-drawer gun with a Yeet-Dot that won't hold zero, or will go dark after 2 shots.

I give it a couple years before we see a resurgence of Art of the Dynamic Iron Sights™. Obviously RDS is the way, but you just know we're going to see those marketing articles. (e.g. "Is the RDS dead? Learn this hot new method to use iron sights like a Navy SEAL!")

[Clusterfrack]

Which ones broke or malfunctioned?


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4 Romeo 1s (and a RMR on a G19).

[TCB]

Standardizing on a footprint will come soon IMO, probably the ACRO if I had to guess. Then it’ll be a matter of iron sight manufacturers figuring out what height people like for different optics and start advertising for them (lower 1/4, 1/3, co-witness) like what we see with AR dot mounts as things standardize. But I still believe the next major jump will be from the gun side of the house with a design that will integrate a non reciprocating onto a Glock level of adoption pistol (Silencerco gave it a shot with the Maxim, The Laugo Alien is getting close). That will be an actual major evolution of the handgun. We’ll see good incremental hardware changes of dots until then.

[BillSWPA]

4 Romeo 1s (and a RMR on a G19).

Thank you. My first PMO is an RMR (RM07).


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[HCM]

Just my opinion, but RDS on pistols is going to have become almost a mandatory requirement of the buying public before we see manufacturers build new guns that allow for a stationary RDS.
The only shortcut to this I can imagine is some Gov/military group asking for such a creature to be designed.

What makes you think some some Gov/military group hasn't asked for such a thing ?

Just like they have asked for RDS optics which direct mount to the original MOS cut and allow use of standard height sights.

[HCM]

As much as I like making fun of timmies, deep down inside I am a timmy. That was one of the main reasons why I didn’t want to shoot CO for a long time. First when it just became a division, it was not really respected because 1) It was viewed as a boomer division addressing the aging population of USPSA, 2) selling out to big sponsors and clueless public and 3) the classifiers were screwed up. Watching people go through 5 dots in 5 months did not help either. I started shooting it for real a month ago and as much as I don’t want to like it, I really enjoy it now. Mostly because I realize and accept the fact that I can’t see as well I used to.

Still I can’t possibly imagine using a red dot on a duty pistol. Even if it doesn’t lose a dot suddenly, what happens if the pistol falls on the concrete floor for example. I already broke the glass just from brass ejection. Yes, the backup sights help but it looks like a solution just to prove that the whole concept is still too fragile. That is why I have 3 slides now ready to go. Every CO shooter around me who is more or less serious has like 5 dots min as a back up. Just ask GJM. For that reason I don’t want to abandon the iron sights completely. So as to OP, I really hope the future of the dots is reliability. This is the most important thing IMO. Ironically this is not a concern to a lot of timmies because they don’t really shoot much and from their perspective a delta point pro is bulletproof.

As someone who:

Carries a dot pistol on duty;
Shoots CO;
Has killed both a "green board" DPP and a Gen 1 RMR;

You concerns are .... either inaccurate or no longer accurate. These are the same arguments made against RDS on carbines in the 1990s. Now even second and third world militaries are running optics on their rifles.

Iron sights are also subject to failure, damage from being dropped etc.

I've been messing with RDS on pistols since 1998 but seriously for the past 5 years, about the same time my Agency started looking at them. TLDR we are in the process of converting 13,000 LEO to RDS pistol carriers. The other major DHS LE Agencies (CBP and USSS) are issuing an optics ready pistol. The FBI is issuing RMR equipped Glocks to SWAT and Instructors and begun (or are about to begin) issuing an MOS version of the 19M to new agents. Both the current SOCOM G19s and the current M17/M18 pistols are optics ready. My local PD (2,000 sworn with a good firearms program) have authorized RDS and are transitioning to an optics ready platform. A neighboring city PD (also 2,000 sworn) is in the process of issuing every cop a pistol with an optic.

For a variety of reasons Carry Optics is not always the best model for service guns. It is a great way to pressure test gear (which is why I do it) but at least half of the guns and gear used in CO is not suitable for duty use so it's not a 1:1 comparison. There is also the factor of people tinkering and experimenting with gear. While this can result in progress it's often a double edge sword.

In the past we have adapted pistols designed for iron sight to mini red dots designed as back ups for magnified rifle optics.

While the optics themselves have (and continue to) improve, and we now have optics designed as pistol optics such as the ACRO P-2, IME mounting is 50% (or more) of the durability equation.

Going back to your DPP example, While the DPP's themselves have been significantly upgraded (green circuit board models to Blue board/ Night Vision models) the fact that the people the "DPP Timmies" are modeling have gone to a factory DPP specific optics cut is significant. The SIG Romeo1PRO, which is the second most issued/approved LE RDS behind the RMR is essentially a DPP clone with better brightness controls. It has held up well so far. I attribute that to the fact that most R1P's in LE use are "properly" direct mounted by the factory.

Guns designed to truly accommodate RDS such that the dot doesn't reciprocate with the slide will only improve the situation.

Your assertion that the use of BUIS are some sort proof that RDS are too fragile for duty use is illogical. Redundancy in life/safety equipment is a time tested standard, be it back up guns, seat belts / airbags, reserve parachutes, etc. As such a back up sighting system is standard on any serious use gun whether those are BUIS, a second RDS or a Vis/IR laser.

[jbrimlow]

Frame mount that puts the dot over the back of the slide: https://www.evergladesammo.com/eg-rt...pe-mounts.html