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Thread: Experienced LEO opinions wanted.

  1. #31
    Site Supporter Lon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gtmtnbiker98 View Post
    100% geographic based. I have yet to see in my part of Ohio any strains regarding public support.
    I’m a bit north of his AO. We’ve seen more outward support in the last 20 months than the previous 20 years. Still have the nay sayers, but a lot more people overtly supporting us.
    Formerly known as xpd54.
    The opinions expressed in this post are my own and do not reflect the opinions or policies of my employer.
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  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lon View Post
    I’m a bit north of his AO. We’ve seen more outward support in the last 20 months than the previous 20 years. Still have the nay sayers, but a lot more people overtly supporting us.
    Yeah, us too. To the point that I am wondering where the other shoe will fall. Our naysayers are really, really loud, but they don't seem to get many supporters.

    pat

  3. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Bolt_Overide View Post
    Do y'all feel like things have changed a lot as far as rapport with the public?
    I think that depends largely on location and agency mindset, which, to me, is influenced more by FTO's than many realize.

    Even in little old Kansas, I can see agencies that if an officer makes contact they are looking for a way to put you in jail. I can also point to agencies where the officers interact with the public on a more personable level. Even then, unless there are public reports/gossip of corruption or brutality, the general public seems to be supportive of police.

    Agencies shouldn't have to order officers to get out and interact with citizens when they have a free moment, that should be a commonsense tactic to put more tools in your toolbox - you can never have too much information on your beat area.

    At my first agency, we had the time to get out of the units and make citizen contacts, we were expected to cut supplemental paper on all preliminary reports we took even if it was just stopping back and checking in. I was a rookie when this became policy. There was a lot of bitching, but, since I was pretty fresh out of the Marines, I put my efforts toward obeying the Sixth General Order and turned to. I was glad I did.

    The reactions of the people I contacted made me feel like I was accomplishing something in my role as an officer. Then there was the time that I stopped back a week or so after taking a prowler report to see if everything was okay and the lady told me that the kid down the block had a garage full of bikes. Maybe solving about a dozen reported bike thefts wasn't on par with finding Jimmy Hoffa, but it was a good start for a rookie just out of the academy. It sent me on the way toward 'my style'. Even though the Chief that started that initiative didn't last long, I continued the practice after he left.

    Later, as an academy instructor I reflected on what we had called beat management and began to tell recruits the story of my wife's two cats. One was named Worm, the other Prissy. They were different as night and day, Prissy was a fraidy cat and spent much of the day hiding. Worm, on the other hand, would bug me until I petted him, rubbing up against my leg, etc. Until he got what he wanted - attention. (note - too long to write the whole story - but I detested the cats, my wife (then girlfriend) brought then with her when she moved in with me, my boxer ended up in a kennel outdoors) I morphed the story into officers complaining that no one appreciated them telling them that no one was going to chase them down and pat them on the back, they had to be like Worm, and place themselves where they could be patted. Then went on to tell them how I had accomplished feeling appreciated. Over the years I had several officers, not as many as I would have liked, tell me of their successes in this area.

    Man, I would have killed for a laptop to keep up my beat book back in those days.

    TLR - officers who keep in mind the precepts of VN era COIN Warfare and act on them generally have the support of the community: The first law is that the population is paramount. That is, the support of the people is the primary objective of a counterinsurgency campaign. Without the support of the population, it is impossible to root out all the insurgents and stop further recruitment.
    https://www.beyondintractability.org...nterinsurgency
    Adding nothing to the conversation since 2015....

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bolt_Overide View Post
    Do y'all feel like things have changed a lot as far as rapport with the public?
    I agree with my contemporaries that changes in rapport are indeed geographic. There has been a change in the 5 county PHL area. Much of this is misunderstanding (willful or otherwise) about law enforcement activities. There is an overwhelming amount of ignorance about the law and how it regulates LE practice in furtherance of legitimate LE goals. Much of this is based on outcome analysis through the lens of emotions vs application of the law. This has led to a vilification of LE in the space of public opinion and results in everything from reduced cooperation with LE to assassination attempts on officers parked in public.
    "Knowledge is good." Emil Faber, date unknown.

  5. #35
    Yah, the god damn media, bunch of dishonest bastards.

  6. #36
    Yah, the god damn media, bunch of dishonest bastards.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by BehindBlueI's View Post

    We also dropped ten codes for the most part, I though post-9/11 most places have due to their lack of standardization. 10-41 for us is one we still use, but it's marking on duty with 10-42 being marking off.
    Our county (most of the county has the same dispatch center) is still in love with 10 codes. They are Deputies we share the channel with that will string half a dozen 10 codes together to make a sentence. I don’t use very many, but you still have to know them for when others do.

    I wish we’d get away from them.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by jd950 View Post
    Even more so since texting replaced talking.

    Academy Instructor:"go ahead and initiate a consensual contact that person...." Recruit: (Look of terror accompanied by obvious gastrointestinal distress, followed by throat clearing and some sounds vaguely reminiscent of the English language)
    That's the first fail. I used to teach everyone to know the law and never make a consensual contact unless it was a reporting party or victim. The Penal Code, when they used to print it in CA, was 3" thick and so was the Vehicle Code, never mind Business & Professions Code, Fish and Game Code, etc. My favorite thing to hear on a contact was, "Am I being detained?" "Yes, you are, and here is why." Reasonable Articulable Suspicion is a thing.

    The yin to that yang, is to teach your folks that if you make consensual contact and the subject tells you to go fornicate your maternal unit, to smile, wave and say, "Have a nice day!" while fornicating off. Until they step off a place of safety into traffic, ala VC 21950(b) and they are detained. I always win because I know how to apply the law and I don't let my ego get in the way.

  9. #39
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    Post 9-11, Homeland Security made noise about cutting off grant money to agencies that didn't adopt plain speech. Shortly thereafter, DHS back peddled and decided plain speech was only a recommendation. Of course, Montgomery County wasn't going to be pushed around by DHS, no way. The County decided, so we were told, that we were going to plain speech as a result of inter-agency communication issues during the Beltway sniper case and not because of any federal pressure. OK, whatever...

    There had been occasional issues, notoriously because 10-50 for the Maryland State Police was a traffic collision while 10-50 for us was an officer in trouble. Indeed, my shift (on an evening I was on leave) was a link on Policeone article about ten codes after a trooper called out with a 10-50 on a county channel and then returned to the MSP frequency. Panic and hilarity ensued.

    I will remark that most old dogs adjusted smoothly to the change while youngsters, hired after the transition, occasionally popped off with ten codes like they were T.J. Hooker's first FTO.

    Then I go to a retirement job at a security organization (working entirely within the county) where ten codes are cool. Of course, the codes have no relationship to any of the old county ten codes. A 10-15 used to be a good thing when I locked someone up. Now I've unlocked a door for someone. Oh, well, while they don't pay the big bucks, they pay the medium bucks..

    Be safe and Merry Christmas.

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