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Thread: JCN cuts jello with the Matriarch

  1. #21
    Deadeye Dick Clusterfrack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RevolverRob View Post
    You know I'm with you on a general preference for point driven blades. Especially in a entangled environment.

    But I did get to thinking the other day, following along with the Civilian/Matriarch stuff - Is a blade that is slash focused and in particular a good cutter in that regard, potentially useful to deploy, in lieu of a point driven tool? And by that, I can envision some scenarios where maybe a slasher might be better than a stabber (not that the two are exclusive, of course). Deployment of a blade in an SD situation has to justify use of lethal force; because a knife is lethal force. BUT if you don't end up killing the assailant, is that better for you post-event? You still deal a sufficient amount of damage to end the attack. I mean this is a constant problem not unique solely to knife deployment. And tells us why we need OC spray, impact tools, knives, guns, etc.

    As far as specific scenarios in general - the number and type of layers I see some of the more aggressive "minimally housed" population to be wearing/carrying concern me regarding going straight to point driven work. In particular, a lot of blankets and downfilled sleep bags worn rather like ponchos. Where I easily envision getting a point driven blade tangled in a mass, slashing through that would be much easier. And an s-curved blade like a Matriarch/Civilian should make short work of that stuff, where despite being a great blade the P'Kal isn't a slasher of that type.
    These are deep questions, and I'm not a SME--just a student of them. Here are my thoughts:
    1. Of course, I'm only interested in stopping a threat from continuing to do bad stuff to me or my family.
    2. "Get off me, stay off me" is the main purpose of a defensive knife. That's likely to happen after a bunch of other things have already gone wrong, and the BG is already on me and I'm entangled.
    3. Defang the snake is primarily a knife-on-knife technique from a face off. See above. EDIT: it can also be a good technique to keep someone from closing distance, as in a rape attempt.
    4. Heavy clothing, leather jackets, blankets, etc. seem more likely to defeat an edge than a point--especially in a fucked up tangle.
    5. Point-driven knife use does not have to be lethal, and has a lot of advantages. E.g. Tip up, edge in can defeat an overhand grab to the wrist.
    6. I like serrated blades. They are so useful for emergency cutting. It's the main reason I own my D/E Microtech.
    "You can never have too many knives." --Joe Ambercrombie
    Shabbat shalom, motherf***ers! --Mordechai Jefferson Carver

  2. #22
    The R in F.A.R.T RevolverRob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clusterfrack View Post
    These are deep questions, and I'm not a SME--just a student of them. Here are my thoughts:
    1. Of course, I'm only interested in stopping a threat from continuing to do bad stuff to me or my family.
    2. "Get off me, stay off me" is the main purpose of a defensive knife. That's likely to happen after a bunch of other things have already gone wrong, and the BG is already on me and I'm entangled.
    3. Defang the snake is primarily a knife-on-knife technique from a face off. See above. EDIT: it can also be a good technique to keep someone from closing distance, as in a rape attempt.
    4. Heavy clothing, leather jackets, blankets, etc. seem more likely to defeat an edge than a point--especially in a fucked up tangle.
    5. Point-driven knife use does not have to be lethal, and has a lot of advantages. E.g. Tip up, edge in can defeat an overhand grab to the wrist.
    6. I like serrated blades. They are so useful for emergency cutting. It's the main reason I own my D/E Microtech.
    We're pretty much in agreement.

    I will say in my experience a double recurve will not get nearly as hung up cutting through heavy stuff with pull cuts (like you might do with so a downward or upward slash) as a relatively straight edge. The slight recurve of a reverse edge blade tends to help, but not like a double recurve, where you effectively have a "double hump" cutting edge

    I'm not 100% why it works that way - but I think it's basically like this: You have a high point, which cuts, as you drag through, anything hung on the high point comes loose as you get to the low point (the dip between the humps) and then is subsequently re-engaged by another high point cutting edge.

    At least that's what I think it happening.

    I've used my P'kal for cutting things from time to time and find it's just not really a great cutter on things. The shallow curve helps in a downward press cut, but not really great on pull cuts. Of course, I wouldn't use a Matriarch/Civilian or really recommend the P'Kal either as cutting tools. A spear point slip joint works better for general cutting chores.

  3. #23
    Idk much but I agree with preferring a more regular well rounded knife with a very useful point than a knife that can only slash (as a defensive choice I mean). Having said that, that civilian would destroy any flesh it came in contact with.

  4. #24
    Site Supporter Totem Polar's Avatar
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    On the subject of serrations: they can have a tendency to grab clothing like denim sleeves or jean legs, and twist/pull them around a limb, rather than cutting through immediately upon contact. The pulling/gathering function of the S-curve on the Civilian mitigates this tendency; part of its legendary slashing performance for a blade/handle rig of its size. With the exception of the idiosyncratic Civilian/Matriarch line, I prefer knives without serrations these days.

    That said, I haven’t had to slash a lot of arm or leg, thankfully, so grain of salt.


    I’m looking forward to the test, @JCN !

    I predict almost erie lack of resistance all the way down to the PVC on every cut, at which point I’d expect the serrations to grab onto the PVC and bind a bit. We shall see. The ballistic gel, saran wrap, and boot will part like butter under a soldering iron. At least, that’s my guess.
    ”But in the end all of these ideas just manufacture new criminals when the problem isn't a lack of criminals.” -JRB

  5. #25
    The R in F.A.R.T RevolverRob's Avatar
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    @JCN - try some slashes at very close range (think blade touching the gel) and then push/pull through with limited arm movement. Basically, simulate the kind of contact the blade might have if you were being bear hugged by a grizzly bear and had just the most limited ability to rake/slash.

    I'm curious as to the results. Obviously, they will be less intense than a big momentum slash, but likely reflect a more real world entangled scenario of blade usage.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by RevolverRob View Post
    @JCN - try some slashes at very close range (think blade touching the gel) and then push/pull through with limited arm movement. Basically, simulate the kind of contact the blade might have if you were being bear hugged by a grizzly bear and had just the most limited ability to rake/slash.

    I'm curious as to the results. Obviously, they will be less intense than a big momentum slash, but likely reflect a more real world entangled scenario of blade usage.
    Quote Originally Posted by Totem Polar View Post
    On the subject of serrations: they can have a tendency to grab clothing like denim sleeves or jean legs, and twist/pull them around a limb, rather than cutting through immediately upon contact. The pulling/gathering function of the S-curve on the Civilian mitigates this tendency; part of its legendary slashing performance for a blade/handle rig of its size. With the exception of the idiosyncratic Civilian/Matriarch line, I prefer knives without serrations these days.

    That said, I haven’t had to slash a lot of arm or leg, thankfully, so grain of salt.


    I’m looking forward to the test, @JCN !

    I predict almost erie lack of resistance all the way down to the PVC on every cut, at which point I’d expect the serrations to grab onto the PVC and bind a bit. We shall see. The ballistic gel, saran wrap, and boot will part like butter under a soldering iron. At least, that’s my guess.
    Quote Originally Posted by newyork View Post
    Idk much but I agree with preferring a more regular well rounded knife with a very useful point than a knife that can only slash (as a defensive choice I mean). Having said that, that civilian would destroy any flesh it came in contact with.
    Thanks for testing ideas!

    Will do some of those.

    I would rather carry / use a pistol than a shotgun.

    But my wife might be better served with a shotgun in specific scenarios.

    That’s how I see knives for me. I don’t need them for utility and if anything farther than arms reach, I’m going to try for a pistol.

    This is kind of like pocket revolver in terms of last ditch defense in a stick up.

  7. #27
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    My wife is hilarious

    She saw my meat arms and gave me a quizzical look.

    I showed her the Matriarch in my pocket and she thought it was a really good idea.

    I told her I ordered two more, one for her and one for testing / practice.

    She said “I thought you’d say that!” And smiled!

    Guess someone’s getting a Matriarch for Christmas, lol!

    It’s better than a washing machine!

    I took a heat gun and smoothed out edges and contours.

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    Wrapped in cellophane.

    It’s kind of arm sized.

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    Kevlar gloves come today.

    Second and third Matriarch come later in the weekend.

  8. #28
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  9. #29
    Deadeye Dick Clusterfrack's Avatar
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    JCN tests the Matriarch for defang the snake

    Your wife sounds awesome. When do you do the tests?

    People were testing point-driven techniques on my body last night… I look like a leper.

    "You can never have too many knives." --Joe Ambercrombie
    Shabbat shalom, motherf***ers! --Mordechai Jefferson Carver

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clusterfrack View Post
    Your wife sounds awesome. When do you do the tests?

    People were testing point-driven techniques on my body last night… I look like the masochist I am.
    FTFY… lol

    I’m still debating a little how I’m going to set them up. Or if I want to melt the blocks so they fit deeper in the boot.

    Also thinking of how securely or not securely I attach them because that’s going to matter in a simulation but different depending on the scenario.

    For the close in test, I could fix the meat arm because they could be holding onto you with a hand.

    For the full slash they might be arms length away in which case the arm could move downwards and likely would when hit.

    So I’m thinking of how I want to attach it. It might wind up getting duct taped to a broom handle or something.

    Tests probably early to mid week when I’m off work.

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