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Thread: JCN cuts jello with the Matriarch

  1. #11
    I'm interested mostly out of morbid curiosity... Knives are generally a utility thing for me, not so much defense use, though I do tend to choose them with being pressed into defense use as a possibility.

  2. #12
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    @JCN I forgot to add I’m all in for watching some cut tests, I think it will be cool.


    One question I have since I haven’t messed with clear gel like that is is it as grabby as it looks to blades when I watch people trying to cut it on the YouTube? It always seems to be stickier than actual meat on video, but that’s probably the kind of thing that’s hard to judge by watching a video.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caballoflaco View Post
    @JCN I forgot to add I’m all in for watching some cut tests, I think it will be cool.


    One question I have since I haven’t messed with clear gel like that is is it as grabby as it looks to blades when I watch people trying to cut it on the YouTube? It always seems to be stickier than actual meat on video, but that’s probably the kind of thing that’s hard to judge by watching a video.
    I think that’s astute and correct. It’s a lot grabbier than muscle.

    Wetpack wrapped around a wood dowel might be a more accurate simulation.

    Will run gel and see if I can get any ballpark data knowing it’s not a great simulation.

    Ordering a leg of some animal from the butcher would be a better test but a little less reproducible from cut to cut.

    I saw this Cold Steel video:



    They test things like meat and Tatami mats. And at the end they do ballistic gel and organ simulants. They maybe would make a comment if it was totally unrealistic compared to all the meat they cut?

    It’s probably good enough with the usual caveats.

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    Arm bone’s connected to the….

    Gel is cooling.

  5. #15
    Site Supporter Totem Polar's Avatar
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    Cool!

    Looks like a fun way to spend an afternoon.

    As an aside, I’ve trained with Mike Janich a few times, and he typically does a “pork man” demo that uses pork loin, rolled around a dowel (to simulate bone) and wrapped with an ass-ton of saran wrap—which does an acceptable job emulating the tension and elasticity of skin. Compressing your gel with some wraps of saran wrap might be a useful addition.

    At any rate, I’ve seen several of these “pork man” demos, and it’s sobering how little effort—and how little blade—is needed to open up big chasms all the way down to the dowel. A Spyderco Delica will do it.

    As to contour cutting—and the proclivity of the S-curve Spyderco knives to follow contour, Jim Keating has some comments on this in his old 90s-era Civilian instructional video: presented here purely for educational purposes. Do not try this stuff at home…



    ”But in the end all of these ideas just manufacture new criminals when the problem isn't a lack of criminals.” -JRB

  6. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by JCN View Post

    The Matriarch / Civilian blades seem perfect for my intended use.
    I saw that picture and thought to myself "Tsk-tsk, no good for taint stabbing". Then I proceeded to imagine myself repeating derivations of that phrase like Dustin Hoffman in Rain Man. "Of course it's definitely not a taint stabber. Definitely not. All curvy in front. Not for stabbing taints. Definitely not a point driven taint stabber".

    Hanging out around PF for too long has made me beyond strange. Probably crazy. But certainly strange.

  7. #17
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    I would be interested in seeing the video. The "pork roll" makes a lot of sense. I really want to see the look on your wife's face when you slice up the boot she wanted to donate....
    Be Aware-Stay Safe. Gunfighting Is A Thinking Man's Game. So We Might Want To Bring Thinking Back Into It.

  8. #18
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    Meat popsicles take two

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    Okay, that worked better than trying to shove it in.

    I like the Saran Wrap idea and will do that.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clusterfrack View Post
    ‘Merican





    C'mon...

  10. #20
    The R in F.A.R.T RevolverRob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clusterfrack View Post
    Cool project!

    Testing is a good idea, if only to gain a healthy respect of edged weapons. I think it’s vastly more likely that law abiding citizens like us will face a knife threat than have to deploy a knife in defense of our life. I’ve been attacked once already.

    Taking @SouthNarc’s EWO is a better investment in time and resources. Highly recommend!

    Be careful. All sorts of weird stuff can happen when you cut or stab something.

    You need a LOT less force than you might think.

    I’m personally not a fan of the Karambit or knives with finger holes. These are legitimate for their intended purposes, but are limiting in ways I don’t like.

    Defanging techniques are legitimate, but are only a small part of a well rounded defensive edged weapons toolbox. If a knife can’t also be used tip driven, and edge in (tip down or up), that’s a dealbreaker for me. So that leads me toward more symmetrical grips and blades.

    I like waved knives, but also practice with non-waved because I don’t want to be limited by that.

    P’Kal or Yojimbo (with Pickpocket wave) are some of my favorites. And OTFs if legal.
    You know I'm with you on a general preference for point driven blades. Especially in a entangled environment.

    But I did get to thinking the other day, following along with the Civilian/Matriarch stuff - Is a blade that is slash focused and in particular a good cutter in that regard, potentially useful to deploy, in lieu of a point driven tool? And by that, I can envision some scenarios where maybe a slasher might be better than a stabber (not that the two are exclusive, of course). Deployment of a blade in an SD situation has to justify use of lethal force; because a knife is lethal force. BUT if you don't end up killing the assailant, is that better for you post-event? You still deal a sufficient amount of damage to end the attack. I mean this is a constant problem not unique solely to knife deployment. And tells us why we need OC spray, impact tools, knives, guns, etc.

    As far as specific scenarios in general - the number and type of layers I see some of the more aggressive "minimally housed" population to be wearing/carrying concern me regarding going straight to point driven work. In particular, a lot of blankets and downfilled sleep bags worn rather like ponchos. Where I easily envision getting a point driven blade tangled in a mass, slashing through that would be much easier. And an s-curved blade like a Matriarch/Civilian should make short work of that stuff, where despite being a great blade the P'Kal isn't a slasher of that type.

    Quote Originally Posted by JCN View Post
    I think that kind of falls along continental lines though, right?

    Lots of Asian / Middle Eastern curved blades (I am far from an expert, though).
    It's generally more "purpose of the tool". Pretty much every culture with agriculture will have some type of relatively short and wide chopping focused blade. Often with a broad tip, to add mass at the end for easier chopping. And those same cultures will also tend to have some type of more stabbing oriented blade, often used for fishing, hunting, etc where you need an acute tip to get and under things.

    I can tell you, it's pretty easy to make an either-or blade. It's also pretty easy to make a blade that sucks at both stabbing and chopping/cutting. It's actually the toughest thing to make a blade that does both things equally well - especially as you size the blade down.

    That's why the bowie knife shape remains so popular after a century and a half. A clip point that drops allows good stabbing, while a wide belly mated to a proper handle allows excellent slashing/cutting to occur. Of course...the problem there is it's not as easy to carry a bowie big enough to do those things as it is to carry something like a Spyderco Endura or Delica.

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