This. I use the factory +2 on my Glock mags because they reload better than the flat bottom ones. The extra 2 rounds is just a bonus. They also make the magazine stand upright more vertically which makes using an UPLula easier to use on the tailgate of my pickup.Originally Posted by Default.mp3
The majority of reloads are caused by not getting hits. These seem to come from mag dumps and the mag dumps appear to be unaimed. Training has to emphasize that officers (or armed citizens, for that matter) need to aim before they fire.
I wasn't worried about a reload as much as something going bad with my main gun. I always carried a back-up and later in my career I carried two of the same guns.
We had a self-defense shooting here two nights ago where the good guy got good hits, but bad guy didn't go down, and he ran out of ammo. Good guy won only by the grace of God. I'll try to do a detailed write-up in the members only section later on.
"The victor is not victorious if the vanquished does not consider himself so."
― Ennius
I don't fault the guy after such a crazy incident to go through but a couple points on it. One is don't fight the last war mentality. This is something that happens often enough in the training, tactics and equipment of military and law enforcement after an incident whether it is a single person or agency or national news like FBI Miami. It's great to take a deep dive and try to learn all the lessons. However focus can get skewed and has to lose sight of reality. The second point is the difference between carrying 145 rounds on person and having access to more ammo. I too carried a couple extra mags in my bag in the patrol car to go along with 3 AR mags and 870 loaded plus speedfeed stock. That wasn't the same as carrying 3 full standard capacity handgun mags on person.
So even this rather extreme outlier is resolved in two Glock 17 mags.
Gramins had discharged 33 rounds.
I get the emotional response, though. I was, and remain, unconcerned about my handgun ammo but still don't like only having two rifle mags. Which is foolish. But my formative years included a full load out was 7 mags, and that's tough to shake. Actually, given I started on revolvers and the 1911, perhaps that also explains my emotional comfort with a much smaller number of handgun rounds than some would be comfortable with.
Sorta around sometimes for some of your shitty mod needs.
Read the article, here is what the former officer safety and survival instructor's take is:
A couple of things first though, 1) this guy was going to shoot it out with the officer (or another officer) pretty much regardless of what tactics the officers used; 2) the officer can't control the suspect's drive to close with and destroy absent CNS hits C4 or above.
In teaching vehicle stops for a couple decades I've been told (and experienced on the road) that you don't choose the stopping location, the suspect does. This is true fact. So, what can we do to mitigate the subject's choice of a stopping location that isn't favorable to us? Quite simply, stay back, distance is our friend.
Patrol car video has shown us the results of officers screeching to a stop just barely off the trunk of a pursued vehicle containing a shooter willing to exit the vehicle and move at the patrol unit. Officers in those situations often take rounds through the windshield or side windows. At what is considered normal stopping distance - somewhere between 10 to 20 feet of separation - the bad guy can be out of his car and closing with the officer before he gets his boots on the ground, putting rounds through the windshield as they advance.
In my testing while conducting vehicle stop training, using officers who did not know that they were being tested, I found that even after discussing the options for a sudden assault out of the vehicle moments before, officers couldn't get out to engage or put the car into reverse (or drive) before being engaged by a driver who exited the vehicle immediately upon the stop.
Think about what you are doing as the vehicle you are pursuing or trying to stop suddenly and aggressively stops. If you are like some officers, your first priority is probably going to be avoiding collision with the suspect's vehicle. Regardless, at this point the suspect is acting, and you are reacting, his vehicle is stopped and in park before you have come to a stop, more than likely he is already opening the door to exit. Realistically you aren't going to beat him out of the unit.
(sorry if this isn't timely in regard to other posts - I took a couple hours to do some work)
So, the key is to make contact in these situations at a greater distance. This goes against the normal 'type A' response in these situations of close with and destroy that which threatens. Staying back several car lengths more than you feel is necessary is a cerebral tasking that is not going to implant based on lecture. Unfortunately, very few agencies have the inclination to conduct actual pursuit training on an EVO course, and few have access to driving simulators. Tactics such as commentary driving can help, but as much as I loved teaching the course, I doubt if very many went on to become proficient.
If you doubt the veracity of the above paragraph, take a look at pursuit or emergency response videos captured by air units or in car video. View them critically - at what speed do officers bust intersections? especially on red lights? How many officers maintain two to four seconds following distance? How many drivers mimic the fleeing driver's actions, versus staying back, slowing while in a straight line, apexing properly, and gaining their former distance upon exit? Far more allow their brain to drop to their foot on the accelerator, than keep it tactically engaged.
Everything above might seem pretty far of the subject of 'ammo, more ammo' but, is it really?
TL:dr: The best survival shooting technique is avoidance. If that isn't possible the next best technique is to engage in a situation which gives you the advantage. Distance is your friend, plan your pursuit or stop so as to allow you to stop at a safe distance if the subject suddenly stops.
Adding nothing to the conversation since 2015....
Who's going to argue with the first 20 rds? Maybe somebody with a death wish.
I'm happy with an 8 rd mag and two spares, but nobody sends me to collect the crazies. I can always just leave.
Last edited by Borderland; 12-22-2021 at 07:45 PM.
In the P-F basket of deplorables.
On the other hand, plenty of people have been in shootings with 9mm and then decided a higher caliber was necessary. As usual, accuracy counts and stuff does happen. No criticism whatsoever of our brother who prevailed in this incident. If I could carry that much ammunition with reasonable comfort and accessibility, I certainly would. That said, while I'm a 9mm guy, I think a third magazine on the duty belt would be a better option than the larger magazines carried...where?
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