Can NAVY SEALS Convince GREEN BERET to Switch to Sig Sauer -- Parts 1 and 2

[Mark D]

My favorite and least favorite comments come within seconds of each other. DJ says, "grip matters". Ya dude. Then seconds later he completely loses me when he says, "if I pull this gun out of the holster someone is getting shot". No way dude! There are people who hang on every words these guys say because of their pedigree. You can't tell regular people that if they draw their gun they have to shoot someone. People will take what they say as gospel.

Mike Glover says a ton of stupid shit. His military pedigree not withstanding, I wish he'd shut up about self protection.

For folks wondering about DJ Shipley, he was at Devgru. Shawn Ryan* recently had a lengthy interview with him. I thought it was very interesting, especially when he discussed the challenges towards the end of his active service.




(*Shawn Ryan has been on my "ignore list" ever since he reviewed a baby Glock and demonstrated poor marksmanship and general ignorance about handguns. That said, he's an excellent interviewer, mainly because he asks a question and then lets his guests talk.)

[JHC]

Junk food

[YVK]

I don't have an hour for this. Cliff notes?

[HCountyGuy]

I don't have an hour for this. Cliff notes?

Basically guys pimping out their experience from their former day jobs to give their opinions on their preferred handguns because “used by special forces”.

[Tensaw]

Mostly off topic - Mike Glover sat down with Jocko for a multi-hour interview. If half of what was said is true (and I have no reason to doubt it), Glover has put a bunch of dudes in the dirt whilst operating in a variety of austere conditions. Pretty much the definition of “been there, done that.” I found him fairly humble, or at least matter of fact about his background, to boot. That said, more recently I have tried to listen to his material that he has put out connected with Fieldcraft Survival and have found him to cater to folks who know very little about whatever subject matter he is speaking on. I understand everyone has to start somewhere, but I have been unable to mine any gems from what he has put forth. [No joke, the knowledge base available here at PF about any topic under the sun routinely outstrips the material I have heard him put out.] Again, Glover clearly has the resume and comes off as super legit, it’s just what I’ve heard from him on technical stuff hasn’t increased *my* knowledge.

Ryan lost me very early on with his general attitude and I will leave it at that.

[Thy.Will.Be.Done]

The biggest problem I have with Glock is everything else i have has more 1911ish angle to the grip. This means when I take to the Glock I will for certain have to take that extra step DJ mentions to crank the muzzle down to get the proper alignment. This does, however, to my knowledge lock the wrist to benefits recoil control. There's no free lunch. Glock is not wrong but the grip angle was taken from a very naturally pointable gun, the Luger.

The Luger is a completely different design (steel frame, etc) and I do feel the makeup of the Glock frame in addition to the angle and girth (especially the full sized ones) causes many problem for everyone who isn't highly trained to not shoot at a high level and also suffer limp wristing issues. I would expect in actual Combat uses where compromises grips are common the Sig would be much more reliable, we see TONS of malfunctioned Glock Cop shoots.

[Wake27]

The biggest problem I have with Glock is everything else i have has more 1911ish angle to the grip. This means when I take to the Glock I will for certain have to take that extra step DJ mentions to crank the muzzle down to get the proper alignment. This does, however, to my knowledge lock the wrist to benefits recoil control. There's no free lunch. Glock is not wrong but the grip angle was taken from a very naturally pointable gun, the Luger.

The Luger is a completely different design (steel frame, etc) and I do feel the makeup of the Glock frame in addition to the angle and girth (especially the full sized ones) causes many problem for everyone who isn't highly trained to not shoot at a high level and also suffer limp wristing issues. I would expect in actual Combat uses where compromises grips are common the Sig would be much more reliable, we see TONS of malfunctioned Glock Cop shoots.

One thing to consider though is that many of the guys that carry Glocks into military combat typically have a good amount of time on them.


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[HCM]

Mostly off topic - Mike Glover sat down with Jocko for a multi-hour interview. If half of what was said is true (and I have no reason to doubt it), Glover has put a bunch of dudes in the dirt whilst operating in a variety of austere conditions. Pretty much the definition of “been there, done that.” I found him fairly humble, or at least matter of fact about his background, to boot. That said, more recently I have tried to listen to his material that he has put out connected with Fieldcraft Survival and have found him to cater to folks who know very little about whatever subject matter he is speaking on. I understand everyone has to start somewhere, but I have been unable to mine any gems from what he has put forth. [No joke, the knowledge base available here at PF about any topic under the sun routinely outstrips the material I have heard him put out.] Again, Glover clearly has the resume and comes off as super legit, it’s just what I’ve heard from him on technical stuff hasn’t increased *my* knowledge.

Ryan lost me very early on with his general attitude and I will leave it at that.

Mike Glover is a real deal dude who can “do it” /“Has done it”
But as an instructor he is….. Lacking.

Mr. Glover is a good example of what I have heard described as the “magic Johnson “effect
Two of the greatest basketball players of all time, Magic Johnson and Michael Jordan were both abject failures as coaches. They could do amazing things on the court but for a variety of reasons that did not translate into being able to help others to perform at a higher level.

[jellydonut]

Mostly off topic - Mike Glover sat down with Jocko for a multi-hour interview. If half of what was said is true (and I have no reason to doubt it), Glover has put a bunch of dudes in the dirt whilst operating in a variety of austere conditions. Pretty much the definition of “been there, done that.” I found him fairly humble, or at least matter of fact about his background, to boot. That said, more recently I have tried to listen to his material that he has put out connected with Fieldcraft Survival and have found him to cater to folks who know very little about whatever subject matter he is speaking on. I understand everyone has to start somewhere, but I have been unable to mine any gems from what he has put forth. [No joke, the knowledge base available here at PF about any topic under the sun routinely outstrips the material I have heard him put out.] Again, Glover clearly has the resume and comes off as super legit, it’s just what I’ve heard from him on technical stuff hasn’t increased *my* knowledge.

Ryan lost me very early on with his general attitude and I will leave it at that.

I like Mike Glover as a person but he has adjusted his output to suit the almighty algorithm of youtube. You can tell by these obnoxious titles that all these youtubers use, like this one, the ultra-annoying "x REACTS to y" title format, and the sheer length of the videos. YT algorithm rewards longer videos up to a point.

I'm not sure if he's doing it subconsciously or if he's actively trying to game the algorithm, but the end result is content that is not relevant to people like PF forumgoers any more.

His stuff is much more tolerable on instagram, where content comes in 1 minute bites.

[littlejerry]

Is PF really going to have a Glock grip angle debate?

Anyone who can't train through the minor ergo differences on any of the common platforms has bigger problems. I've seen newbie shooters gravitate to all platforms and grip angles. One is not better than the rest, and even the one that doesn't "point naturally" is still capable of high performance.

Reaching proficiency with a pistol is about doing the work to get there, not debating grip angles.