Can NAVY SEALS Convince GREEN BERET to Switch to Sig Sauer -- Parts 1 and 2

[DDTSGM]

Cooper started as a rifle shooter and allegedly carried a colt SAA as a personal side arm during World War II.

Chuck Pressburg (Roland of Roland special fame) Is a very accomplished pistol shooter. He has an excellent video called the flinches which addresses recoil anticipation issues. In the video Chuck mentions that persons such as himself with anticipation issues tend to Have difficultly with DA triggers. The context was in reference to the Beretta 92 but I think it would apply equally to double action revolvers.

Somewhat off-topic but I was also given to understand Cooper was cross eyed dominant which explains some of his other shooting preferences.

I had also heard he was cross-dominant. I'm currently reading through The Modern Technique of the Pistol for the first time to trace the evolution of the modern technique as was suggested by another member. I find it laborious even though Cooper (as editor) and Morrison are good writers. Why? Because there is nothing new, the contents are shopworn. That, in and off itself is testimony as to the influence that Cooper had on the art and science of pistolcraft.

I would put forth that in my experience teaching DA revolver to the masses, grip/finger strength was more of an issue than anticipation, once you get them past staging the trigger.

Back then we probably inaccurately called the DA pull a gross motor movement and a SA press a fine motor movement.

[JHC]

I miss the matches at Creekside.

Am toying with a new thread to share stories of Creekside matches. Creative bunch

[tlong17]

Here you can learn 3 times as much in 1/3rd the time.

[willie]

Cooper selected the Colt Peacemaker for military service on the advice of Elmer Keith whom he later criticized on various grounds. Cooper was born at least 100 years ago. His generation grew up in an era with viewpoints that would not pass today's litmus tests on gay/lesbian or sex or gender or race politics. I used to think that progress had been made in these areas, but sometimes I think most of us are merely more careful about what we say or don't say.

I can't bear watching Y Tube videos so I don't. The reference to special forces persons reminded me of a friend whose son had been an Army special forces guy. The dude recommended a Hi Point pistol to his father. I worked worked with a retired Army ranger who knew much about the weapons he trained on but zero about any others. Of course, I don't say such is typical, but it does pop into my pea brain from time to time.

About point shooting. Once I had an old man instructor teach me how to shoot using the FBI crouch and point method. I hit the ground every time I shot at it. He was deadly accurate with it. He could also hit tin cans in the air with a sling shot and hit skeet birds when hip shooting. He had ability that most of us do not.

[Rex G]

Well, OK, by the 10-minute mark, of Part 1, they convinced me that a GP100 is the best gun in the world, for my hands. Yeah, this is a bit of confirmation bias, because my favorite handgun, in the world, assuming the original OEM factory grip configuration, is already a GP100, but, let’s keep in mind that I have been searching for a better mousetrap, since the early Nineties. An S&W K- or L-Frame is as good, but I must install non-factory grips.

What the SEALs said was so very different about SIG and Glock, for them, is not different, for me. Both “drive” the same, in my hands, when I hold them. The different grip angles make no difference. I got away from SIG, in 2015, for the lower bore axis of the G17, retiring my longest-serving duty pistol, a P229R .40, to transition to a G17, as soon as my chief 9mm to be an alternative duty cartridge. (The arthritis, in my right thumb, hand, and wrist, had started vexing me, by age 50, in late 2011.)

I do agree with the SEALs about a too-small pistol. IIRC, Mr. Shipley specifically stated that he found the G19 to be too small. I, too, found the G19 to be too small to be driven as well as a G17. Until 2017, that simply meant that if I carried a G19, I had to accept lesser accuracy potential. I tended to carry my duty G17 during personal time, for that better accuracy, and because I noticed very little difference to no practical difference, in conceal-ability. As of October 2017, that too-short G19 grip started really vexing the arthritis in my right thumb, hand, and wrist. I mothballed my three G19 pistols, and accumulated more G17 pistols, and a G19x. In 2020, I traded-away those three G19 pistols.

Notably, I was able to get my little finger onto the grip of a G19, with the Gen4 finger grooves fitting my skinny fingers quite well. In my hands, the problem seemed to be that the “heel” of the G19’s grip did not reach the “heel bone” of my hand. This was, effectively, one less point of contact. Some consider the hand to be just one point of contact, but, I consider each of the forearm bones to be a column of support, with the radius bone supporting the thumb, and the ulna bone supporting the heel of the hand. A compact or ultra-compact pistol might be a good “get-off-me” weapon, for scraping-away a near-contact-distance attacker, but, if I have to engage at a greater distance, I fully appreciate a service/duty-sized grip.

[Pistol Pete 10]

Berets are smart they'll sick to 1911 guns.

[Mercworx]

Consultant jobs are pretty typical for former SOF guys. Besides going the mercenary/PMC route, it's the most applicable way to transition their hard and soft skills into making money post military, especially when they are having trouble transitioning. There's a bunch of money to be made there, and it's largely cyclical.....a company will pop up, go at it for a few years, they'll finally get tired/finally "let go" and go do something else, and other companies from guys who recently got out will pop up to fill the void. Same thing with the guys who fill the contracts. A segment of our training cadre is filled using mostly former SOF guys, and that's pretty much how it works. When you're looking at high drive/high ego individuals like that, going cold turkey is often very destructive and working on training contracts often gives a smoother transition until an individual can accept being a civilian and changing gears entirely.

Now, when referring to the skateboarders, are you referring to the guys from GBRS Group in these videos mentioned by the OP? Because they/one of them actually owns/runs a skateboard company, so....

Yes I was. I guess that explains it then lol. Thanks for the info.

I think what I was referring to is the BRCC, Grunt Works, Goon Squad, FOG style. But to each their own it’s probably nothing. They just all seemed to have the same aesthetic.

[Super77]

What’s going on culturally in the veteran community?

I mean stylistically, lately its always some sort of “consultant” group that all look like they are professional skateboarders rather than former military. Every other word is an expletive to the point that sometimes I lose track of the actually content they are trying to share. Or on the other hand it’s some sort of homo erotic over sexualized video that depicts veterans as drunken buffoons. Also they all seem to sell T shirts and stickers.


Edit: I looked into more of this “groups” videos.

It's gone in waves. A decade+ ago everyone was going to get out and be a blackwater contractor or something. Then they were going to be a shooting instructor. Then everyone was going to do the next wounded warrior project. Then everyone was going to start a t-shirt/sticker/coffee company. Then it was "we gotta get all these vets some dogs". Right now it seems to be youtube/instagram personality and for that you have to have a certain look.

I take these guys' opinions with a huge grain of salt, mespecially when it comes to shootin g pistols. Your average SEAL and GB would be B or maybe A class shooters in USPSA and have probably not fired a pistol in anger. I would listen to a squared away LEO way before these guys, especially for civilian self defense type stuff.

[Wake27]

It's gone in waves. A decade+ ago everyone was going to get out and be a blackwater contractor or something. Then they were going to be a shooting instructor. Then everyone was going to do the next wounded warrior project. Then everyone was going to start a t-shirt/sticker/coffee company. Then it was "we gotta get all these vets some dogs". Right now it seems to be youtube/instagram personality and for that you have to have a certain look.

I take these guys' opinions with a huge grain of salt, mespecially when it comes to shootin g pistols. Your average SEAL and GB would be B or maybe A class shooters in USPSA and have probably not fired a pistol in anger. I would listen to a squared away LEO way before these guys, especially for civilian self defense type stuff.

CIF/CRF guys, which I’m pretty sure Mike was, shot pistol a lot.


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[fatdog]

Every time one of these former .mil instructors trying to build a monetized internet following is running around the range with a battle belt, DOH or thigh holsters, dump pouches, etc. etc. I have a hard time listening to the rest of what they are saying because I know they simply don't get my personal context at all. If they did, they would not be running with all that stuff and every draw would be from concealment, clearing a garment.

I even have a hard time believing most of them run around all day long, 16+ hours a day with the guns they are advocating for strapped in place unless they are uniformed duty LE.

Probably the reason that people like Tom Given, Mas, Claude Werner and others have an outsized influence on my thinking. Even when it comes to universal subjects like grip, sights, and trigger control.