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Thread: Size/strength doesn't matter, and other lies you were told.

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by High Cross View Post
    I think personally that in both shooting and martial arts fitness is the key for being sucessful
    @High Cross

    Concur. It is astonishing how many fights, even those at a championship level by professional combatants (e.g., Fury-Wilder III), are decided by the last person who becomes too exhausted to remain effective. It seems that the strength necessary for fighting is less than one would think, but the endurance is (or can be) much greater.

    Sidebar: That's one of the reasons I've changed my workouts to maintain what I think is the necessary strength while focusing more on improving endurance.

    Ducas

  2. #22
    Deadeye Dick Clusterfrack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by High Cross View Post
    When I was first doing BJJ, the take down class felt like a high school wrestling match. It required anaerobic conditioning and strength which I had not expected. Even the professor was so powerfully built i could not move him for certain techniques. I think personally that in both shooting and martial arts fitness is the key for being sucessful
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  3. #23
    Regarding Size and Strength, I keep coming back to a possibly analogous description with @Caleb's "Are Revolvers Relevant" video.



    Is size and strength valuable to the untrained (not going to be trained) because you got nothing else, and then valuable again for the advanced practitioner who knows how to take advantage of those attributes? Size and strength is used in lieu of technique, which makes it a negative for the vast middle.

    I don't know if this is at all true. It's just something I've been rolling (snicker) around in my mind.
    David S.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by David S. View Post
    Regarding Size and Strength, I keep coming back to a possibly analogous description with @Caleb's "Are Revolvers Relevant" video.



    Is size and strength valuable to the untrained (not going to be trained) because you got nothing else, and then valuable again for the advanced practitioner who knows how to take advantage of those attributes? Size and strength is used in lieu of technique, which makes it a negative for the vast middle.

    I don't know if this is at all true. It's just something I've been rolling (snicker) around in my mind.
    I like the idea, but I think the physicality advantage shows itself much sooner than the point at which you are considered an "expert"

    Case in point...Gabi Garcia.

    She is what...6'2 and 235lbs (sometimes competes at 265) with a six pack. Steroids? Absolutely. She's tested positive for them (never been banned in BJJ competitions because another lies you were told is that BJJ is a "clean" sport where integrity is important to those involved)

    But what about skills? Well she's a black belt with multiple titles. She's only ever been submitted once in her whole career and she has many submission victories that display an understanding of BJJ

    There are few women who can compare to her on the basis of physicality alone, but she has been beaten by points or by more technical victories, but being beaten by submission didn't happen until she was competing at black belt, because the amount of skill required to significantly overcome such a physicality difference can probably only be seen at the highest levels of the art.

    So maybe the physicality advantage is there earlier, and wanes later as you must compete with people who are at very high levels.

  5. #25
    Is there is a possibly a loosely defined “threshold” of adequate size that once surpassed, size differences are much less important than they are under the threshold? Essentially being big enough.

    Mike Tyson and Fedor Emelianenko were both relatively small heavyweights, who often overcame substantial size differences that might be likely with lighter weight fighters should they be matched against equivalently larger opponents. Or maybe it’s just a matter of once reaching a certain size(approximately heavyweight), there are simply a lot less people of that size who are in shape and highly skilled.

  6. #26
    Modding this sack of shit BehindBlueI's's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister X View Post
    Is there is a possibly a loosely defined “threshold” of adequate size that once surpassed, size differences are much less important than they are under the threshold? Essentially being big enough.

    Mike Tyson and Fedor Emelianenko were both relatively small heavyweights, who often overcame substantial size differences that might be likely with lighter weight fighters should they be matched against equivalently larger opponents. Or maybe it’s just a matter of once reaching a certain size(approximately heavyweight), there are simply a lot less people of that size who are in shape and highly skilled.
    My decidedly non-expert musings: I'd say it's very difficult to be 'the best' in strength AND speed AND endurance simultaneously, since some corners of that triangle tug at others. I don't know there's a 'big enough' but I would suppose at some point the 'bigger' isn't helping overcome the detrimental effects of increased energy demand and more mass to move at speed.
    Sorta around sometimes for some of your shitty mod needs.

  7. #27
    Site Supporter Totem Polar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BehindBlueI's View Post
    My decidedly non-expert musings: I'd say it's very difficult to be 'the best' in strength AND speed AND endurance simultaneously, since some corners of that triangle tug at others. I don't know there's a 'big enough' but I would suppose at some point the 'bigger' isn't helping overcome the detrimental effects of increased energy demand and more mass to move at speed.
    I think that’s true. That said, I doubt that many reading this thread have hit that point of diminished returns yet.


    Craig was straightforward as to when he felt that he was “strong enough,” and the bar (heh, no pun intended) was pretty high.

    That said, it’s true that you simply can’t do it all. But trying will make you hard to deal with, for sure.

    ( @SouthNarc just for kicks/opinion)
    ”When antisemitism moves from the shameful fringe into the public square, it is not about Jews… it is about the surrounding society or the culture or the country. It is an early warning system—a sign that the society itself is breaking down. That it is dying.” -Bari Weiss

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Totem Polar View Post
    I think that’s true. That said, I doubt that many reading this thread have hit that point of diminished returns yet.


    Craig was straightforward as to when he felt that he was “strong enough,” and the bar (heh, no pun intended) was pretty high.

    That said, it’s true that you simply can’t do it all. But trying will make you hard to deal with, for sure.

    ( @SouthNarc just for kicks/opinion)
    For me personally on diminishing returns, it was when I found my guard game had gone to shit after three days a week powerlifting for 2.5 years and a gain in weight of about 18 lbs of muscle. My numbers for triples in the lifts respectively were 245 bench, 405 squat, 495 deadlift at a bodyweight of 186 lbs.

    I'm about 175 now and just maintain what I have which is less than what I was at when I had essentially turned myself into a strength athlete versus a combat athlete. I pulled a fairly easy triple on deadlift the other day of 425 and i'm not pushing numbers right now especially with my travel schedule.

    As far as how my strength translates, no one I grapple with tosses me around or says I feel weak. That includes Alan Belcher who right now is a shredded 245 and former top ten UFC 185-er. Alan has to work technically if I'm on top to sweep or create a scramble with me, which he does fairly regularly. Alan is a black belt I'm a brown belt and Alan is twenty years younger and is 70 pounds heavier.

    Recently I had John Welbourn, the founder of Crossfit football in coursework. John is 275 and was a starting offensive lineman for three different teams in the NFL and an assassin on the field. John was completely incapable of breaking my body-lock until I showed him how. Once he had a LITTLE technique he could probably get out 50% of the time. Six months of grappling and there's no way I could hold him because he's a freak athlete.

    I think everyone who does the deep dive into strength will subjectively get to the point where they are satisfied with being "strong enough" if they are in tune with their body and pay attention to their performance on the mat or in the ring. At 53 and not being a professional athlete, fighter, gunslinger, whatever, I'm fairly satisfied with where I stand right now. My big thing these days is working on skill, maintaining strength, embracing the balance of frequency versus intensity, and being patient with myself on recovery and not taxing my neurological system.

  9. #29
    Site Supporter Totem Polar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthNarc View Post
    For me personally… [snip] My big thing these days is working on skill, maintaining strength, embracing the balance of frequency versus intensity, and being patient with myself on recovery and not taxing my neurological system.
    Thanks a ton for the input, Craig.
    ”When antisemitism moves from the shameful fringe into the public square, it is not about Jews… it is about the surrounding society or the culture or the country. It is an early warning system—a sign that the society itself is breaking down. That it is dying.” -Bari Weiss

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthNarc View Post
    My big thing these days is working on skill, maintaining strength, embracing the balance of frequency versus intensity, and being patient with myself on recovery and not taxing my neurological system.
    THAT is 100% applicable to just about everyone over 45 years old.....

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