Rifle Caliber for Hunting the West

[TWR]

I keep thinking the old saying of bullets matter more than head stamps...

[GJM]

There is no right answer for everyone. Elk hunting is about chances to make a successful shot on an animal. You may be hunting any elk, any bull, or a special bull. There are things that you don't control, like how many days you can hunt, the weather, and what animals present. There are things that you do control, like your ability to shoot from field positions and being able to get into a stable position quickly, the accuracy of your rifle, the type bullet you launch, and the velocity of that bullet.

On a guided hunt, that costs $5-10k with a limited number of days in the field, focusing on a trophy animal, I don't want limitations in my ability, rifle, scope and bullet that limit my ability to connect on a chance on a good animal. Others may like the idea of using a particular rifle, caliber or bullet and be willing to accept limitations those choices impose.

[NPV]

Focus on the things you can control but don’t waste time on the things you can’t.

@GJM is precisely right IMO, quoted myself from another thread but it’s something I try to focus on.

So yeah I may be micro-analyzing a bit but I’m not going to “wing it” on an expensive trip.

[xtrtsqrt11]

That's still a very common method of hunting Elk in the Coast Range here in Oregon, and in parts of Southwest Oregon where cover is very thick.

For context, in my experience Elk hunting on public land in Western Oregon, the largest Elk I saw taken (an old 6x6) was shot at 25 yards with a 210gr Nosler Partition out of a .338 Win Mag. The bullet did not exit, and the Elk went about 40 yards downhill through a thick oak grove before collapsing. It took three of us about an hour to find the Elk because his antlers blended perfectly with the trunks of the stunted oaks, and he was wedged into a small depression that obscured his body. It was raining and we saw very little of a blood trail. That experience led me to choose a Winchester (Miroku) 1886 in 45-70 with 405gr hard cast bullets for my hunting in that area, on the theory that a big cast bullet will exit and provide a better blood trail for tracking. I have not yet had a chance to test that theory.

Bow hunting is also very popular in the Willamette Valley of Oregon. Yes, very thick underbrush.

That 45-70 will serve you well. The one shot I have seen with a 45-70 (my Dad's) was a chest cavity shot. No exit with the 405 grain cheap Remington ammo. The type that is safe in old Trap Door Springfields since it's so mild. The Elk dropped like a rock, was about 50 yards away running right in front of him (right to left) nice and perpendicular to my Dad. La Grande area specifically (is where we typically went). As we went to quarter the Elk, the entire chest cavity was nothing but pulp. No organs, no nothing as is normally seen. We all said "wow"-having collectively seen dozens of Elk and Deer gutted.

ETA: what impressed me the most was that to get that kind of stop on an Elk usually required a shoulder shot. Then you lose all that meat. A chest cavity shot does the job, but they usually don't stop running for quite a while.

[NETim]

My bro's WY elk this year. 300 Win Mag and a 180 Nosler Accubond. He has literally killed a metric ton of NA and African game with that setup. It is a wicked combo.

[GJM]

My bro's WY elk this year. 300 Win Mag and a 180 Nosler Accubond. He has literally killed a metric ton of NA and African game with that setup. It is a wicked combo.

a .300 WM with a quality bullet has probably killed more big elk than any other combination in the mountain west over the last 20-30 years....

[Duelist]

There is no right answer for everyone. Elk hunting is about chances to make a successful shot on an animal. You may be hunting any elk, any bull, or a special bull. There are things that you don't control, like how many days you can hunt, the weather, and what animals present. There are things that you do control, like your ability to shoot from field positions and being able to get into a stable position quickly, the accuracy of your rifle, the type bullet you launch, and the velocity of that bullet.

On a guided hunt, that costs $5-10k with a limited number of days in the field, focusing on a trophy animal, I don't want limitations in my ability, rifle, scope and bullet that limit my ability to connect on a chance on a good animal. Others may like the idea of using a particular rifle, caliber or bullet and be willing to accept limitations those choices impose.

@GJM is precisely right IMO, quoted myself from another thread but it’s something I try to focus on.

So yeah I may be micro-analyzing a bit but I’m not going to “wing it” on an expensive trip.

In addition to what George said above, hunting in the West can be a lot of different things. Hunting Coues whitetail in Arizona mountains is very different to hunting sheep or bison, or elk in a juniper flat vs an alpine forest at high elevation, or cows and spikes vs. mature bulls.

I normally have plenty of time to examine a Coues through high powered glass at distance, make a decision to make an attempt, move into range, set up a shot, and make the kill. Coues are tiny, light built deer and you can kill them with nearly any bullet from nearly any rifle, within appropriate distances. I like to be ready for 400 yards, but try to be closer than 300 before I shoot. This year, the only buck I saw popped up out of a draw right next to where I was glassing, required a “quick” sprint across rocky steep spurs and draws, and then I had to look at him for a minute to figure out if he was actually wearing antlers or if the light was reflecting off the branches of the bush behind him. That part about taking a solid shooting position in a hurry? Didn’t make that decision fast enough, nor was I ready for a fast offhand shot at less than 70 yards when he turned his head and gave me a look at his antlers.

I wasn’t ready for how the animal presented and wasn’t ready to make the shot happen within the parameters of what was available. I’m sure any practiced still-Hunter would have killed that deer easily, but I wasn’t ready and you don’t usually get do-overs. The actual opportunity was a complete gimme chip shot (though a very brief window of time), and I feel a little bit stupid for not being ready to take it. That kind of thing isn’t how we normally get deer in these mountains and I haven’t needed to make that kind of shot in 20 years.

But the other stuff - the rifle (model 70 featherweight, .270 Win), the bullet, its velocity, its capacity and applicability to the situation were all fine. I’ve killed deer with it before, with perfectly satisfactory performance.

I would never shoot an elk with the same bullet, though. It’s too light and fragile. If/when I hunt elk again, the .270 will have a heavier, stouter bullet loaded up. And if I have any questions about what bullet to use, I’ll probably have a question or two for George and Lost River, who have killed more mature bulls than I’ll probably ever see.

[David S.]

Vortex does have three scopes in their Razor hunting line.

3-15x40 is 19oz
3-15x50 is 20.5oz
4.5-22x50 is 22oz.

That's right in line with Leupold's VX-5HD offerings.

[ccmdfd]

Some thoughts on bullet selection:

https://fieldethos.com/match-bullets-suck-for-hunting/

.

Good read with a lot of good points.


As they say, things happen in 3’s.



Just saw a YouTube video last night where the guy was talking about the current obsession with sub-moa accuracy. According to him, back in Jack O’Conner’s days a 3 MOA rifle was considered more than adequate for hunting North American game, and should still be considered adequate. But everyone wants long distance sub moa stuff.


Then my cousin, who is 1000X the hunter I am (multiple safari trips, including his honeymoon, hunted everything on this continent other than big brown bears) and I were discussing the current long range trend. He said he didn’t want to shoot something more than 250 yards away. The thrill of the hunt is more about getting close to the game, watching their behavior, etc. It’s not about shooting.



FWIW.

[WDR]

I'll probably never hunt an elk but if I did . . . I see bowhunters get close up shots in the woods. Does anyone rifle hunt like that? If I was to do so, I'd like woods hunting elk with a levergun. Can't recall any reports of hunters doing such however, I mean in recent years.

As GJM explained, bowhunters are almost always hunting right in the hottest part of the rut, when the bulls get dumb and very aggressive about anything that sounds like another bull coming after their harem of cows. They respond to calls, and can be maneuvered on, or called in. Most of the rifle hunts, besides certain limited entry units, occur after the rut, and the bulls stop being so dumb and generally are no longer bugling or coming in to calls. It's a hell of a lot harder to get close to a bull elk in late October, in thick dark timber, where they like to bed down when the pressure is on. Most of the bugling I've heard during the rifle hunt here, is other hunters.

You can still hunt timber, but its extremely difficult to be quiet enough to get close in the tangled deadfall they seem to universally like to hide in. This fall, the single bull I saw, was while still hunting the bottom of a canyon. East-West running canyon, with steep, thick dark timber and deadfall on the south side, and open sage on the north side, and a few aspens/quakies lining the bottom, with a nice cow/game trail that could be quietly walked while looking uphill through the timber. My first indication that there was a bull there, was an antler smacking the trunk or branch of a tree. I had about a one second glimpse of antlers and a big rump at about 40 yards as he went over a small rise and then ghosted me. I didn't even have enough time for a snap shot, so the rifle I was holding (3-9x scoped .30-06) didn't even matter.

I've had some success still hunting like that, but while the shots like that might be well managed with something like a .45-70 levergun with irons or a dot, the next minute you may be standing on top of a ridge, looking at a herd on the far side of the canyon, 300-500 yards away, feeding through the sagebrush. .45-70 can still work at that range, but you'd better have a range finder, and know your dope. Or maybe I need to mount an offset RMR on my ole '06 Fudd gun.