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Thread: Shoot to incapacitate

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2021
    East Central Alabama
    This proposal sounds like some of "Brandon's" shoot'em in the leg nonsense.

  2. #12

  3. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by jd950 View Post
    "Mortality in patients sustaining pelvic fractures has been reported to be 4% to 15%" The American Journal of Surgery, Volume 211, Issue 3, March 2016, Pages 495-500

    "penetrating injuries to the buttock poses a similar threat to the patient as penetrating trauma of any other body region" Lunevicius, R., Schulte, KM. Analytical review of 664 cases of penetrating buttock trauma. World J Emerg Surg 6, 33 (2011).
    I was probably better off not having seen that first one after The Incident. A fractured pelvis and other injury, although not from gunshot.

    The lawyer inadvertently shot in the butt by a highway patrolman here was lucky, he recovered well and displayed the nicely expanded Gold Dot to show his guardian angel was at work.
    Code Name: JET STREAM

  4. #14
    Site Supporter
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    I was first introduced to the “shoot to incapacitate” concept when either attending the NYPD firearms instructor course or Glock’s transition instructor course in the early 90’s. I’m sorry for not recalling exactly. The concept was intended to provide officers the ability to explain their intended outcome of use of force. Instead of “shooting to kill” or wound, the purpose of deadly force was to cause “rapid incapacitation” through blood loss. That is accomplished by punching big/many holes that drains blood resulting in low to no blood pressure. When training to that standard, it means keep shooting until your adversary stops doing what they are doing. Sometimes people die. Sometimes people do not. End result—they stop doing what they were doing to get shot.

    "I shot to rapidly incapacitate the suspect”.

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    I was my former agency's lead less lethal instructor for some time. (Of course, if I just concentrated and watched the front sight, I could have been a more lethal instructor. Thanks very much. I'll be here all week. That said...)

    The circumstances described by the CNN "expert" seem like a great argument for agencies to increase acquisition and training in a variety of less lethal options. If officers have several less lethal options, there is a greater chance that the suspect will surrender or be incapacitated. If a suicidal suspect is stationary and armed with a "melee type weapon", better to attempt apprehension with one or hopefully several less lethals than to hope the officer who, according to the "expert" has time and positioning to set up for the leg/abdominal/pelvic girdle shot. If the suspect suddenly rushes the police, I doubt anyone is going to take the time to try to wing him.
    If the time and distance allows that great shot, it would offer time and distance to pop him with Pepperball and beanbags. Depending on circumstances, it may then be time to close and, if needed, deploy Tasers and/or pepper spray. That seems a whole lot less risky to the suspect, officers, and anyone down range than going for a gut, groin, or leg hit and hoping you don't miss, don't kill him, or get eviscerated yourself.

    In the end, despite what the media thinks, being an armed and resistant subject remains and should remain a dangerous occupation.

  6. #16
    Mr. Shovel Lover Hambo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Behind the Photonic Curtain
    Quote Originally Posted by jd950 View Post
    1. Don't watch ANY talking heads.
    Following my edit of this post may not eliminate most of life's problems, but it will stop you from wasting precious moments of your life.
    Go ahead and call the cops, you don't meet nice girls on traffic stops.

  7. #17
    Site Supporter Lon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Dayton, Ohio
    Sadly, there’s a nearby agency I can see totally adopting this.
    Formerly known as xpd54.
    The opinions expressed in this post are my own and do not reflect the opinions or policies of my employer.

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Of course , it has to be Lagrange. Lets just say LPDs Police Chief is very progressive in his thinking, and mostly not in good way. They had a officer shoot someone in the arm after he had committed murder in front of the officer in 2020.
    Last edited by pm07; 12-07-2021 at 11:51 PM.

  9. #19
    2 to aortic arch and one to the brainbox will incapacitate, no ?

  10. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by pm07 View Post
    They had a officer shoot someone in the arm after he had committed murder in front of the officer in 2020.
    Can you link to a news story for more details? Sometimes officers don't hit what they are aiming at, could it be the officer was trying to hit center mass and doesn't deserve to be under the bus for anything but bad marksmanship under more stress than competition?

    I'm sure some of the agency's officers aren't happy with the policy - it's kind of a made for second guessing policy regardless of what the officer does.
    Adding nothing to the conversation since 2015....

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