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Thread: Is this grip, trigger control or operator headspace and timing?

  1. #21
    You kind of have to be there watching the shooter to be able to read a target with any degree of certainty.

    One of the things we always tried to emphasize in our instructor courses is that 'shooting occurs at the shooter, not the target.' IMO, there are way too many folks who tend to watch targets and call shots instead of getting in a position to watch shooter mechanics.

    Targets are best used to verify what the instructor/coach saw on the line.

    Having blah blahed enough, if I had to say something, the second target looks like you are increasing pressure down the grip as you press the trigger, commonly referred to as milking.

    The remaining targets seem to be indicative of jerk.pip.

    Those were shot at 7 yards. Blow those groups up to their 25 yard size following the trends exhibited and it would become much more noticeable.
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  2. #22
    Abby Normal awp_101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Lehr View Post
    Having blah blahed enough, if I had to say something, the second target looks like you are increasing pressure down the grip as you press the trigger, commonly referred to as milking.

    The remaining targets seem to be indicative of jerk.pip.
    Going to an indoor range has increased my flinch so to milk the grip on the first rounds and then start snatching the trigger makes a lot of sense.
    It’s a lot easier to save face if you keep the lower half of it shut

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  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by awp_101 View Post
    Going to an indoor range has increased my flinch so to milk the grip on the first rounds and then start snatching the trigger makes a lot of sense.
    Shooting indoors is also hard for me. As others mentioned lighting is an issue, likewise noise and concussion are issues. I use Oakley clear lenses indoors because I can tell the difference between them and other clear shooting glasses, I also double protect - plug and muffs.
    Adding nothing to the conversation since 2015....

  4. #24
    Abby Normal awp_101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Lehr View Post
    Shooting indoors is also hard for me. As others mentioned lighting is an issue, likewise noise and concussion are issues. I use Oakley clear lenses indoors because I can tell the difference between them and other clear shooting glasses, I also double protect - plug and muffs.
    I’ve been using electronic muffs but double plugging will probably help as well. It’s certainly not going to hurt.

    I wear my regular glasses because they’re also my safety glasses for work (polycarbonate lenses). And if I didn’t, I’d have to teach Hank E. Dog to be my seeing eye spotter.

    I’ve got an eye appointment in a couple of weeks. Even bringing just a slide in is a hassle I don’t want to deal with but I may bring something like a screwdriver to hold at arms length because sometimes my work involves looking at smaller objects at arms length.
    It’s a lot easier to save face if you keep the lower half of it shut

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  5. #25
    Abby Normal awp_101's Avatar
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    Today's shooting, post #4 here
    It’s a lot easier to save face if you keep the lower half of it shut

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  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by awp_101 View Post
    Today's shooting, post #4 here
    Good shooting! I bet that felt good.
    "If it takes a machinist to make something work… It’s a failure for my purposes. This is not a hobby. Life and very much death can depend on this. --SoCalDep"
    "You don’t really graduate from certain problems or certain things… like you always have to work on trigger control and pulling the trigger straight. " --Ben Stoeger 1/24/2018

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by awp_101 View Post
    Today's shooting, post #4 here
    Quote Originally Posted by Clusterfrack View Post
    Good shooting! I bet that felt good.
    So it was vision then?

    Now the irons and dot targets match up with better contrasting targets….
    Pointing at cardboard things.... CO GM, working on PCC.

  8. #28
    Abby Normal awp_101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clusterfrack View Post
    Good shooting! I bet that felt good.
    Thanks, it did!

    Quote Originally Posted by JCN View Post
    So it was vision then?

    Now the irons and dot targets match up with better contrasting targets….
    Vision and grip best I can tell.

    I think managing expectations was a big part as well. Consciously I KNOW a 1-hole group and a 1” group are 2 different things. Subconsciously though, I think I EXPECT a 1-hole group even though I know I’m shooting for a 1” group. Not letting myself be even a little frustrated when the orange paster wasn’t shot out was a big deal and led to being more relaxed while shooting.

    I might bring the targets in to 5 yards next time so hopefully I can track each impact as it happens and see if any patterns emerge.
    It’s a lot easier to save face if you keep the lower half of it shut

    Blog with cool stuff

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by awp_101 View Post
    Thanks, it did!


    Vision and grip best I can tell.

    I think managing expectations was a big part as well. Consciously I KNOW a 1-hole group and a 1” group are 2 different things. Subconsciously though, I think I EXPECT a 1-hole group even though I know I’m shooting for a 1” group. Not letting myself be even a little frustrated when the orange paster wasn’t shot out was a big deal and led to being more relaxed while shooting.

    I might bring the targets in to 5 yards next time so hopefully I can track each impact as it happens and see if any patterns emerge.
    What diameter was the paster?

    This was a 1” paster at 7 yards freestyle last week with a regular CZ75B when I was getting dialed in for the Three Sevens drill. It was somewhere between 5-10 shots.

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    Let me know if you’d like my opinion on how to get from where you are at to here.

    This was my 9 yard target six years ago when I started shooting…. I had to figure out some stuff along the way…

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    Last edited by JCN; 12-06-2021 at 05:29 AM.
    Pointing at cardboard things.... CO GM, working on PCC.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by awp_101 View Post
    Or D: all of the above?

    Just shot this at 7 yards offhand slow fire with a 22/45.
    Attachment 80857

    Ignore the shot order, I had to guess.

    I’m trying the “grip lightly with strong hand and crush with support hand” technique. Is stringing like this more of a grip or trigger control issue? Or both with operator error thrown in?

    Check out Bob Vogel's video on grip: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=688tyvWxaYg

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