Increasing Violence in Public Schools

[JohnO]

"Should".

Reality is that they and their situations can be manipulated for votes, money and control. There's no reason to solve the problem for those ostensibly elected to do so.

Bingo!

[rob_s]

First and foremost you treat them for what they are. You don't coddle them and mainstream them thereby bringing everyone else down. If they want to demonstrate that they are capable of being a productive member of the student body then they are welcomed.

It is not the job of the schools to raise children, teach manners, responsibility, accountability or values. Putting a rotten apple in a basket with good apples doesn't improve the rotten apple.

that's not a policy solution, that's a Pollyanna Wishlist that everyone behave like you (or, like you think you do).

I also think you're maybe confusing me for someone else.

I'm *not* suggesting they should be in the same classes with everyone else if they can't hack it. Possibly not event he same school, or any school at all.

But to just say "yo momma oughta be raisin you" is just... well... not really even worth a response, now that I think about it.

[JohnO]

I also think you're maybe confusing me for someone else.

Please no. I apologize if I gave you the sense I was going after you or anything you said. I just was referencing some of your comments and adding my two cents. If we were having a face to face conversation it would have been nothing more than a friendly exchange of ideas and opinions. Again I'm not implying anything in this post or my previous posts.

[Joe in PNG]

In too many situations, "we have to do something!" just makes the problem worse. Unintended consequences and perverse incentives* turn the best intentions into the road to hell.

In this situation, we know what is absolutely not working- our current public school system. Throwing money at a 'solution' that isn't working isn't suddenly going to make it work.
What we have now is a classic case of Sunk Cost Fallacy with a whole lot of Educational Cargo Cult thinking.

It's even been well argued that no only are we throwing money and not helping the 'bad' kids, we're also harming a whole lot of 'good' kids in the process. Getting bullied, robbed, assaulted, and even raped by young felons in waiting isn't doing anyone any good. Nor is spending time with a group of peers encouraging criminal habits. We need to get the bad apples out.

And yes, awww-its-so-bad-so-sad they have such terrible backgrounds. Boo-hoo. But coddling those little thugs isn't worth damaging the good kids in the process.

Finally, if the kids are too ill behaved and dangerous to be out on the streets during school hours, then they absolutely should not be in schools.

*not like that, Blues!

[blues]

*not like that, Blues!

* Where do I fit into this? I'm lost.

[Joe in PNG]

* Where do I fit into this? I'm lost.

Kind of an off hand hope you'd come up with something amusing about 'perverse incentives'.

[blues]

Kind of an off hand hope you'd come up with something amusing about 'perverse incentives'.

I'm sure I could but...you know...moderation in all things.

[Borderland]

In too many situations, "we have to do something!" just makes the problem worse. Unintended consequences and perverse incentives* turn the best intentions into the road to hell.

In this situation, we know what is absolutely not working- our current public school system. Throwing money at a 'solution' that isn't working isn't suddenly going to make it work.
What we have now is a classic case of Sunk Cost Fallacy with a whole lot of Educational Cargo Cult thinking.

It's even been well argued that no only are we throwing money and not helping the 'bad' kids, we're also harming a whole lot of 'good' kids in the process. Getting bullied, robbed, assaulted, and even raped by young felons in waiting isn't doing anyone any good. Nor is spending time with a group of peers encouraging criminal habits. We need to get the bad apples out.

And yes, awww-its-so-bad-so-sad they have such terrible backgrounds. Boo-hoo. But coddling those little thugs isn't worth damaging the good kids in the process.

Finally, if the kids are too ill behaved and dangerous to be out on the streets during school hours, then they absolutely should not be in schools.

*not like that, Blues!

Don't they have classes in prison? A professor of mine told me that he was teaching a class in a state prison. Or maybe that's just not a good learning environment.