10mm defensive loads

[GJM]

Having shot road injured deer with .357, 9mm, .40, .45 and 10mm AND shot demo cars on our range with all the above the 10mm does indeed give me the warm fuzzies. The 155gr - 165gr .40S&W wasn’t bad either. I wish Speer would factory load 10mm rounds with a 180gr GD at 1,200ish fps for my kind of dude.

Can you elaborate on the performance of different cartridges on the road injured deer, and where you shoot them? I have fired finishing shots on multiple elk with Lehigh penetrators in 9 and 45 Super, and not noticed much difference — meaning a shot through the brain did the job. A woman in Montana who my wife and I shoot USPSA with, says she has finished off a bunch of road injured deer with brain shots with her Glock 43.

[jellydonut]

When I moved to Alaska in 2002, pretty much all the pilots (and “pilot” describes most people in the Bush, since you mostly have to fly to get out in the field) were carrying a Smith 629 four inch or Mountain revolver. Later, when the Scandium 329 came out, that became the sidearm of choice. In the last ten years or so, the Glock 20 became the pilot’s go to sidearm. The funny thing, is when I ask them what ammo they are carrying, they get a funny look and usually answer “10mm.” Those that do have some penetrating ammo invariably answer my question as to how many rounds they tested in their pistol, with “the extra ones beyond the 15 that went into the magazine.”

As an aside, you can generally bet that someone carrying a .500 Smith is from lower 48, and by afternoon that revolver and shoulder holster is usually draped over an ATV, or a nearby tree, because the rig weighs so much.

Interesting, does anyone have any opinions on what rounds you'd actually want to be carrying for bears?

[GJM]

Interesting, does anyone have any opinions on what rounds you'd actually want to be carrying for bears?

Easy — Brenneke Classic Magnum slug in a quality semi auto shotgun.

[Rick R]

Can you elaborate on the performance of different cartridges on the road injured deer, and where you shoot them? I have fired finishing shots on multiple elk with Lehigh penetrators in 9 and 45 Super, and not noticed much difference — meaning a shot through the brain did the job. A woman in Montana who my wife and I shoot USPSA with, says she has finished off a bunch of road injured deer with brain shots with her Glock 43.

We have three Interstate highways and one of our State “Corridors” running thru our county. Our deputies shoot a lot of injured deer. Some are still up and mobile enough to preclude an easy CNS shot. As the guy who purchased/issued ammunition when our deputies shot a deer they came to me for replacement ammo. From talking with them and shooting deer myself, all the issued cartridges worked with brain shots. I drove up on a younger female deputy exactly when she double tapped a doe thru the head with her 1006, so training to shoot until they go down apparently stuck with her.

It was the more mobile deer requiring body shots where the .357, 9mm and even .45acp were less effective. The 10mm (and .40 155/165gr loads) usually required one shot. Late one night I was called to an accident scene where the driver pointed to a nice 8 point buck limping across a field 50 yards from the scene. I walked over to catch it at probably 100 yards out and put a single 10mm XTP behind its shoulder from @20 yards away. When I got back to my car I found a police officer who informed me that his city had just annexed the crash scene that week and thanked me for shooting the deer because their 9mm guns were embarrassing on deer.

They all work with headshots, some jurisdictions use suppressed .22 rifles for just that, it’s when the animal is up and mobile and full of adrenaline that has led me to prefer the 10mm over the 9mm or even the .45acp. We know which orifice opinions resemble, but my experience has led me to like the 10mm. I’m not trying to sell everyone on 10mm, I just wish Speer would load their 180gr GD to 1,250fps for those of us who do.

[Caballoflaco]

I like the idea of a 180 @1200 fps for hunting and general outdoor use. However, the last couple of times I have shot one I came to the conclusion that it’s not the cartridge I would want to be using if I had been shot, stabbed, beaten or otherwise physically impaired. Shooting it back to back with 9mm really reinforced my opinion that for me it’s just too spicy of a meatball to be an ideal personal defense cartridge. A .40 power level loading (which have proven to work well enough against people and barriers) would be my preference for defensive loads in 10mm for greater controllability.

[md8232]

Our bears & hogs aren’t too big here in Arkansas, but both are bigger/faster than me.
I’m using Buffalo Bore 21C in the Glock for my walking around load.
Will this get me “killed in the streetz?”

[GJM]

We have three Interstate highways and one of our State “Corridors” running thru our county. Our deputies shoot a lot of injured deer. Some are still up and mobile enough to preclude an easy CNS shot. As the guy who purchased/issued ammunition when our deputies shot a deer they came to me for replacement ammo. From talking with them and shooting deer myself, all the issued cartridges worked with brain shots. I drove up on a younger female deputy exactly when she double tapped a doe thru the head with her 1006, so training to shoot until they go down apparently stuck with her.

It was the more mobile deer requiring body shots where the .357, 9mm and even .45acp were less effective. The 10mm (and .40 155/165gr loads) usually required one shot. Late one night I was called to an accident scene where the driver pointed to a nice 8 point buck limping across a field 50 yards from the scene. I walked over to catch it at probably 100 yards out and put a single 10mm XTP behind its shoulder from @20 yards away. When I got back to my car I found a police officer who informed me that his city had just annexed the crash scene that week and thanked me for shooting the deer because their 9mm guns were embarrassing on deer.

They all work with headshots, some jurisdictions use suppressed .22 rifles for just that, it’s when the animal is up and mobile and full of adrenaline that has led me to prefer the 10mm over the 9mm or even the .45acp. We know which orifice opinions resemble, but my experience has led me to like the 10mm. I’m not trying to sell everyone on 10mm, I just wish Speer would load their 180gr GD to 1,250fps for those of us who do.

Thanks for elaborating, and a lot of this is consistent with my experience.

First and foremost, as is well,established, bullet placement matters most. The woman I referenced finishing deer with her Glock 43 is a talented shooter and was putting one bullet behind the ear. If you can strike and penetrate the brain, a 9mm seems to work as well as a 10mm or other larger caliber.

Where things get complicated is with a wounded animal. I have shot a number of larger animals like elk, moose, and Cape buffalo, and if shot once in the right spot, and left alone, they often don’t move far, and ultimately expire there. When an animal is wounded and alarmed, you have a more difficult time hitting the brain or spine, and you have to either reach vitals or otherwise cause enough blood to leak out to make them quit. Larger diameter and heavier bullets make bigger holes, which speeds the process. I suspect a shotgun with slugs would work even better than the 10mm.

Someone needs to grab one of the new M&P 10mm pistols and start testing — reliability, durability, the optics mount, and accuracy.

[GJM]

Our bears & hogs aren’t too big here in Arkansas, but both are bigger/faster than me.
I’m using Buffalo Bore 21C in the Glock for my walking around load.
Will this get me “killed in the streetz?”

Bill Wilson reports have taken many hogs with a Beretta 92 and Barnes bullets — says if you hit them in the right place, they die quickly.

[JCN]

I just wish Speer would load their 180gr GD to 1,250fps for those of us who do.

Underwood does that. (Linked above).

[JCN]

https://www.underwoodammo.com/10mm-a...low-point.html

Underwood makes a 180gr Gold Dot loaded 10mm rated at 1300 fps.

Link to Underwood loaded 10mm Gold Dots.