Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 23

Thread: Turkish pump gun experiment - Copolla PA-1225

  1. #11
    Site Supporter
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Location
    Texas
    Quote Originally Posted by TGS View Post
    Not a pump, but a quick look at the CZ lineup shows the 712 Utility, a 20" barreled semi-auto 4+1 that looks like it has promise. Not that $1000 is grossly expensive for a combat firearm, but retailing for half the price of the Beretta 1301 at just ~$500 certainly is appealing as long as the quality commensurate with CZ is there.
    My lgs has these. The Utility also has choke tubes. I have disassembled two. Workmanship is excellent. The gun is heavier than an 870 or 590. I bought the Stoeger 3000 because I got an as new one cheap. I said earlier that the Model 3000 has vicious recoil with regular buckshot. The gas operated 712 Utility should have less felt recoil. I can tweak the M300O to run with light loads. Doing the same with the 712 would require enlarging the gas ports and cutting a couple coils off the recoil spring. Both brands are designed with the recoil spring fitting over the magazine tube. I'm playing around with the Stoeger. Both guns are too much for me. If I were serious about using a 12 gauge for home defense, I would buy the famous Beretta 1301 and be done with it. Ending up with over $1000 in a Stoeger is easy when one begins customizing. Sad thing is the damn thing is still a Stoeger. I disagree with most folks and assert that inertia driven shotguns can be temperamental, especially when hanging stuff off of them.

  2. #12
    Site Supporter
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    In the desert, looking for water.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Lehr View Post
    Kind of off topic, but which Turkish import most closely copies the 870? Looking for a winter project that, like Lon, I won't be devastated if I screw up.
    I bought a very lightly used 870 Express for $200. Turk guns may be cheaper than a new 870 or other quality make, and fun to play with, but I don’t think you have to go there to get an inexpensive project gun.

  3. #13
    Site Supporter
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Location
    Texas
    A significant negative to buying a shotgun made in Turkey is parts unavailability. An importer's staff might be an old lady in an office with a computer, phone, and a few file cabinets. Across town is a gunsmith who has agreed to repair warranty returns. He can't get parts either. An exception might be Stoeger whose holding company can afford to deliver good customer service. Another exception might be CZ. Either place will replace a lemon with a new gun. Have you noticed that car dealerships stock very few parts? They order most from a central supplier. Maintaining parts inventories is super expensive. In the long run a made in Turkey firearm is not a good deal. Right now CZ will stand behind their Turkey shotguns. Once model changes occur, or they switch manufacturers, probability is high that they will not support the product. As an example we can look at Ruger. There is a long list of Ruger products no longer supported by factory service. Remington and Marlin and Winchester are also examples.

  4. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by willie View Post
    A significant negative to buying a shotgun made in Turkey is parts unavailability. An importer's staff might be an old lady in an office with a computer, phone, and a few file cabinets. Across town is a gunsmith who has agreed to repair warranty returns. He can't get parts either. An exception might be Stoeger whose holding company can afford to deliver good customer service. Another exception might be CZ. Either place will replace a lemon with a new gun. Have you noticed that car dealerships stock very few parts? They order most from a central supplier. Maintaining parts inventories is super expensive. In the long run a made in Turkey firearm is not a good deal. Right now CZ will stand behind their Turkey shotguns. Once model changes occur, or they switch manufacturers, probability is high that they will not support the product. As an example we can look at Ruger. There is a long list of Ruger products no longer supported by factory service. Remington and Marlin and Winchester are also examples.
    I think the lack of factory support is a huge deal for Turkish guns. To be fair though, spare parts for 870’s right now are a struggle too. Last word I heard, Rem Arms was not going to support 870’s manufactured under the old Remington either.

  5. #15
    Site Supporter Lon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Dayton, Ohio
    Put 30 rounds through it this morning. A box of Fiocchi Spreader rounds I used for 3 gun back in the day. And some Fed FC and Powershock 9 pellet loads at 10 and 15 yards. Definitely gonna have to stipple the forearm. That thing is slick as snot. Sights need adjusted a bit as well.

    Name:  2081317E-0C60-42A2-87FC-3BCFE0D57B6C.jpg
Views: 362
Size:  29.2 KB
    Name:  6198EA19-4288-4491-B314-B1A9581AB8CE.jpg
Views: 361
Size:  31.0 KB
    Formerly known as xpd54.
    The opinions expressed in this post are my own and do not reflect the opinions or policies of my employer.
    www.gunsnobbery.wordpress.com

  6. #16
    Site Supporter
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Location
    Texas
    Quote Originally Posted by 167 View Post
    I think the lack of factory support is a huge deal for Turkish guns. To be fair though, spare parts for 870’s right now are a struggle too. Last word I heard, Rem Arms was not going to support 870’s manufactured under the old Remington either.
    That is an excellent point which also shows the rapid changes taking place within "our industry". I grew up with 870's but learned the nitty gritty on them when I rubbed shoulders with Rem factory trained armorers. One reason the 870's simple design continued to excel is that Remington demonstrated outstanding quality control over decades. The company also trained law enforcement armorers. We saw things go to hell when quality control declined. Mossberg won by default. My bias is that I think there is no finer shotgun than an older 870. 50 years ago a plain barrel 870 was $100 at Walmart. In 2021 dollars that's around $650. So, guys, go buy a couple nice used ones.

  7. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by willie View Post
    That is an excellent point which also shows the rapid changes taking place within "our industry". I grew up with 870's but learned the nitty gritty on them when I rubbed shoulders with Rem factory trained armorers. One reason the 870's simple design continued to excel is that Remington demonstrated outstanding quality control over decades. The company also trained law enforcement armorers. We saw things go to hell when quality control declined. Mossberg won by default. My bias is that I think there is no finer shotgun than an older 870. 50 years ago a plain barrel 870 was $100 at Walmart. In 2021 dollars that's around $650. So, guys, go buy a couple nice used ones.
    Or even not nice used ones as long as they run. I picked up a beater Wingmaster, cut the barrel to 18.5”, cut an inch off the stock and fit a new recoil pad, thing runs pretty good. I need to restake the shell latches, and some springs could probably stand to be replaced. This is it from last week.


  8. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Duelist View Post
    I bought a very lightly used 870 Express for $200. Turk guns may be cheaper than a new 870 or other quality make, and fun to play with, but I don’t think you have to go there to get an inexpensive project gun.
    I've been looking for used 870's around the LGS's, they are scarce around here, and $200.00 wouldn't touch most of them. Over the years I've purchased several Expresses to build on paying around $250.00 for them, but haven't seen a deal like that in a couple years, much less an old beat up Wingmaster.
    Adding nothing to the conversation since 2015....

  9. #19
    Site Supporter Lon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Dayton, Ohio
    Either I didn’t explain why I’m doing this well enough or some of you are missing the point. I KNOW there are better options out there. I know an old 870 would make a better shotgun to tinker with. I built up my first 870 almost 30 years ago when Sage shrouded ghost ring sights were the bomb and I’ve modified who knows how many since then. The whole point of this project is to play around with a Turkish gun and see what it’s all about, regardless of any drawbacks there are to owning one. I’ve got no need for this pump gun. My Vang Comp 870 checks that box in my Arsenal just fine. This is all about having fun tinkering w/ a shotgun. Kind of like tinkering with an old car if you’re a wrench monkey.

    And the bottom line is this - this shotgun had the features I wanted on a shotgun for less than $300 - ghost rings and a rail for an optic.

    I’ve looked around for an old 870 VR barrel to chop down for a Form 1, but I refuse to pay the stupid prices they’re going for right now. I’ll hold off until I can find a pawn shop deal.

    Anyway, back to my project. Took my 870 and the 1225 apart and took some comparison photos.
    Name:  B2D9754C-0012-4A87-9576-11ADD5787421.jpg
Views: 331
Size:  46.4 KB
    Name:  F821ACF7-E1F7-42BA-9A6E-6AE04D1B4656.jpg
Views: 318
Size:  25.7 KB
    Name:  CC4DCB7C-23FB-4166-BFBA-D5CE8BF4B2D7.jpg
Views: 348
Size:  40.0 KB
    Name:  CE24C607-20A1-4B2F-B7F5-A1C80C895D12.jpg
Views: 322
Size:  45.5 KB
    Name:  B509438B-AFCE-48AA-9F6E-095C6115604F.jpg
Views: 333
Size:  71.2 KB
    Name:  7B8CD634-A9E0-44A7-BB23-17A9EEC70519.jpg
Views: 340
Size:  84.5 KB
    Name:  F6EE0084-2DFA-4C04-BB5B-0B3E86602695.jpg
Views: 328
Size:  89.7 KB
    Name:  50BB137C-1D76-42EF-9150-BC7EE4CABAAE.jpg
Views: 330
Size:  90.0 KB
    Name:  14D9F2FA-42DF-434B-93DC-8DB4D4F3C570.jpg
Views: 313
Size:  96.1 KB
    Formerly known as xpd54.
    The opinions expressed in this post are my own and do not reflect the opinions or policies of my employer.
    www.gunsnobbery.wordpress.com

  10. #20
    Site Supporter Lon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Dayton, Ohio
    Crude but effective.

    Name:  26210EF2-1D32-4FB9-87A5-BDA1499A6FAA.jpg
Views: 282
Size:  38.5 KB
    Formerly known as xpd54.
    The opinions expressed in this post are my own and do not reflect the opinions or policies of my employer.
    www.gunsnobbery.wordpress.com

User Tag List

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •