Vetting a shotgun

[mmc45414]

Three that needed warranty service were a 1301

What was the issue with the 1301? Just wondering if there might be something to watch for in my brand new one.

As far as vetting guns, I sorta wonder about how this is viewed around here, being this is the land of the two thousand round challenge and all. Seems like some folks want to run and run and run things until they are convinced their particular example has no possible defect, and I admit I wonder if that is rational. OTOH using something enough to know yours doesn't have a defect seems prudent. That is, if it is something known and established where you are establishing trust in yours, not all of them (like a new Turkish import).

More specific to the question, I recently bought a 590. I took it out and shot 100 skeet targets, and I also took it out and let my pistol shooting friends all shoot it through a sequence on some of our steel plates (I was breaking it in and smoothing it out, Tom Sawyer style...). After these ~150 rounds I am pretty sure I have a working example of a well proven model with a pretty simple action. Though this revealed that the safety is clunky and didn't get better, and an enhanced replacement gets here Monday. It was also evident that I didn't like the Magpul forend and I swapped back to the Mossberg unit. After I change the safety I will take it out some more and run it through a few more cycles, maybe let my buddies take another turn, and I will probably call it reliable. While I still want to do some patterning with it, it is a pretty basic mechanism and a proven model with a buttload of production history, I do not think I need to shoot tons of shells to confirm it is not somehow flawed.

I also just bought a 1301. I have a 391 that I have put thousands (probably ~10k) of rounds through, so I have a great deal of confidence in the manufacturer and basic mechanics of the system. I plan to shoot it in 3 gun matches for the foreseeable future (starting tomorrow), and maybe would consider a class. I want to work on patterning it with some various loads and chokes, and will do that. I might take it out for the same pass it around routine with my friends. But I do not plan to churn though a bunch of ammo just to prove to myself my particular example works. While the gun industry is probably not as sophisticated as we might like to think as compared to automotive or aircraft, it is a higher quality item from a manufacturer with a solid reputation, and I have personal experience with one of its older cousins that has been pretty much flawless (any bobbles have been directly related to ammo, light reloads specifically).

Ammo compatibility is probably a bigger question, but I do not think that feeding is the issue it can be with a pistol. There are no magazine feed lip variations, the carrier holds the shell right up in front of the chamber like a kid playing t-ball. With the 1301 it would probably be worth running a fair quantity of anything that is reduced recoil, even though I wouldn't expect any surprises since my 391 churned through tons of 7/8oz reloads. But right now the only #1 buck rounds I have are some Winchester that are 16 pellets at 1250 and good gawd, I would expect them to function the gun after it was driven over by a truck and filled with molasses.

[Borderland]

All weapons used for serious purposes should be vetted, regardless of manufacturer. Nobody is saying Benellis have had problems over GWOT, or that Turkish guns are just as good as XYZ favorite brand.

It's a simple matter of fact that a single example can suffer from a manufacturing, assembly, or materiel defect that inhibits proper function....hence why it's best to vet. This doesn't take a "bazillion rounds of ammunition", either.

Probably a good idea. I'm assuming that someone who buys a shotgun for SD is going to run at least a box of ammo through it to see if it cycles. Maybe they won't. If that's the case just buy a Beretta or a Benelli.

If you buy a new Mercedes chances are good it'll run.

[TGS]

I agree and posted as much.

Oh, well, your exposé of, "I LeT Ab33rd33N vEt muh GunZ!" didn't really convey that understanding.

I'm assuming that someone who buys a shotgun for SD is going to run at least a box of ammo through it to see if it cycles.

Welcome to the conversation, that's what we're talking about.

[Borderland]

All weapons used for serious purposes should be vetted, regardless of manufacturer. Nobody is saying Benellis have had problems over GWOT, or that Turkish guns are just as good as XYZ favorite brand.

It's a simple matter of fact that a single example can suffer from a manufacturing, assembly, or materiel defect that inhibits proper function....hence why it's best to vet. This doesn't take a "bazillion rounds of ammunition", either.

So how many rounds? Do we vet with Flight control at 2 bucks/rd? Will a box of 5 rds demonstrate proper performance?

I'll stand by previous statement that most people would be better served to just forget about Turkish shotguns for SD.

[Wheeler]

I spoke to a bunch of end users. I also spoke to Benelli. They have not delivered M1014s to the usmc for half a decade or more, which tells me that obviously the guns hold up. End users report zero issues, although some do not like shotguns. Aberdeen reported over 20k full power rounds between major parts failures or replacement. LAPD has had no issues.

Let me propose to ask how you would know a Serpa is bad? How did you access that information?

See what I mean there?

First hand observation.

[Unobtanium]

Oh, well, your exposé of, "I LeT Ab33rd33N vEt muh GunZ!" didn't really convey that understanding.



Welcome to the conversation, that's what we're talking about.

Correct. The paragraph below it, however, stated it in detailed fashions. You can revisit it at your convenience.

[Navin Johnson]

Probably a good idea. I'm assuming that someone who buys a shotgun for SD is going to run at least a box of ammo through it to see if it cycles. Maybe they won't. If that's the case just buy a Beretta or a Benelli.

If you buy a new Mercedes chances are good it'll run.

There is a Toyota Mercedes dealer in your general area that I do business with and almost every car (Benz) that comes off the transport has an issue to resolve before it is retail ready....

Of course they are primarily a Toyota dealer so they are used to properly made vehicles.

[feudist]

So far I've gathered that using a well established brand in military and or police service is first.

Then, a pump requires fewer rounds to establish serviceability-which can be reduced by dry work with dummy shells. At least patterning and a few drills.

The auto requires a greater number of live shots to vet. That number is somewhere between the number it takes to pattern the gun and shoot some drills, and several score.

Speaking of malfs: what is the non diagnostic procedure for clearing a Benelli, a 1301 and an 1100 series?

[Lon]

Let me propose to ask how you would know a Serpa is bad? How did you access that information?

See what I mean there?

I’d start here:
https://pistol-forum.com/archive/index.php/t-1569.html

And then here:
https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....anned-at-FLETC

And then see what LAPD had to say when they banned them here:
https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....-Serpa-Holster

And if none of that convinced me, I’d just need to see how many SERPA holsters die during any one of our local police academies.

But that’s just me.

[Lon]

So far I've gathered that using a well established brand in military and or police service is first.

Then, a pump requires fewer rounds to establish serviceability-which can be reduced by dry work with dummy shells. At least patterning and a few drills.

The auto requires a greater number of live shots to vet. That number is somewhere between the number it takes to pattern the gun and shoot some drills, and several score.

Speaking of malfs: what is the non diagnostic procedure for clearing a Benelli, a 1301 and an 1100 series?

Depends on the malfunction.

Berettas and Benellis are a bit easier sometimes since pulling the bolt back doesn’t release another shell. Other times not so much for that very reason. As I recall, the 1100/1187 release a shell from the tube by pulling the bolt back and releasing it. Which can also be beneficial/hurtful.

It’s been a few years since I’ve put any rounds through a Benelli or a Remington auto, but a couple things stick out to me from my 3 gun days. First, Benelli M1S90s didn’t like to be shot from a moving boat and the end of the lifter on the 1100 Competition model will slice the tip off of your thumb if you aren’t careful. The Remington was also more forgiving during situations when you were shooting from some crazy position (like shooting while seated in a moving boat at Ft Benning).