Waukesha WI Rampage

[AMC]

@TGS. - this right here:



IMHO this is the biggest issue. The late great Dr. William Aprill once said that “people see the world as they are, not as it it is” and as such they look for / try to make problems to fit their schema of the world.

Your fight is going to be what it is not what you want it to be.

Most here, consciously or unconsciously, have a vision of who they think they would need to shoot in a defensive situation. However I will bet most of those preconceptions involve adult adult males who look like criminal stereotypes.

How many think they will have a legitimate necessity to shoot a kid who brought a stolen gun to a public place for an active shooter attack? How many think they would have a legitimate need to shoot a pregnant woman who open fire on good Samaritan‘s after a hit-and-run on an innocent motorcyclist as recently happened in Florida? How about an elderly man dressed like a cowboy who just shot a state trooper ?

That was the best line is a fantastic movie.

[Dog Guy]

This incident was terminated by Reno PD officers on foot using handguns on a moving vehicle before it could turn into a mass casualty event. The article gives a pretty good narrative. The end game is quoted below:

"The van then sped toward them and the crowd of people attending the Wing Fest, the report said. The officers yelled for bystanders to get down and for Saavedra-Vargas to stop. But the van didn’t slow down.

Eason then ran toward the sidewalk, and the van swerved toward him and other bystanders. He then shot at the van through the passenger window, but Saavedra-Vargas didn’t stop, the report said.

That’s when Saavedra-Vargas rammed passed the street barrier and drove toward the crowd as people dove out of the way.

Both officers chased the van, and Eason again yelled at Saavedra-Vargas to stop. But he instead revved the engine and kept driving forward, the report said. Eason fired more shots at Saavedra-Vargas, who then crashed into a booth."

https://www.rgj.com/story/news/crime...ied/319090001/

[LittleLebowski]

What a vigilante wannabe hero movie trope fantasy.

pfff.

I’d call it really poor judgement and an adrenaline dump not to mention extreme pain, but I agree with your conclusion that this wasn’t good. Sadly, this excuse has been used for a lot less, many times.

[Clusterfrack]

I’d call it really poor judgement and an adrenaline dump, but I agree with your conclusion that this wasn’t good.

Are you referring to the guy who was being crushed in between his car and the other guy's? As I understand the situation, the other guy was trying to kill him when he bent down to check the license plate.

[Dog Guy]

Here's Reno's other major murder by vehicle event, Thanksgiving Day 1980. This was also the first MCI I responded to. She stopped her car when she got backed up in traffic a couple of blocks after the rampage. What would be your options if she instead tried to back up and get another run at people?

https://carsonnow.org/story/07/13/20...priscilla-ford

"On Thanksgiving, she made good on her promise.

She drove onto the sidewalk near the Second Street intersection, jumping the curb. She accelerated the Lincoln to around 40 mph, driving back and forth across the streets, onto the sidewalks. People try their best to throw themselves out of her path, but not everyone succeeds.

In only a few short minutes, five people were killed instantly. The injured were numerous, 24 in total; ten were sent to St. Mary’s hospital, fourteen to Washoe Medical Center. Seven people total died after two additional victims succumbed to their injuries."

https://www.newsreview.com/reno/cont...owntown/20584/ for a slightly more melodramatic narrative.

[Dog Guy]

From what I can tell, my comment has been interpreted by several people to mean:

1) Stand in the way of the vehicle
2) Mag dump with a crowd as your backstop
3) Shoot when the car is out of control at high speed
4) Shoot at targets you know you can't hit

I never in my life imagined that advocating the carry of ammunition capable of robust performance through intermediate barriers in case the need arises would be so controversial, but apparently a significant portion of people are soothsayers and know exactly how their gunfight will go. Regardless of the numerous people who've been using a vehicle as a weapon and had their attack terminated by persons with handguns as a matter of routine, the takeaway here is that a cop tried and failed, therefore we shouldn't ever try, and how dare I bring up the topic of ammunition performance regarding current realistic threats on a pistol forum.

Here's my Joe CCW take:
I try very hard to avoid the Four Stupids.
I figure being targeted in a road rage event is one of the more realistic situations where I may be unable to escape.
In such an event, there will be at least two vehicles around.
I have to put bullets in my gun, hence the noun "gun" instead of "hip portable small club".
I pay a lot of attention to the advice of the SMEs on this forum but I don't obsess over the minutiae.
Quality bullets are expensive..
Since I have to buy expensive bullets, I might as well buy expensive bullets that are somewhat more likely to be effective in a reasonably foreseeable but still highly unlikely event where I'm trying to save my own life.
I don't get why this is such a hot button.

[TGS]

I’d call it really poor judgement and an adrenaline dump not to mention extreme pain, but I agree with your conclusion that this wasn’t good. Sadly, this excuse has been used for a lot less, many times.

I was being sarcastic at the expense of someone else claiming that the idea of justifiably shooting someone through auto glass is machismo wannabe hero fantasy bullshit.

[DC_P]

Were the police chasing him when he tried to run down his "girlfriend?"

I don’t know, but the obvious answer is to simply make it legal to run over people since that law clearly targets a disproportionate amount of the underprivileged and people of color.

[blues]

I don’t know, but the obvious answer is to simply make it legal to run over people since that law clearly targets a disproportionate amount of the underprivileged and people of color.

Clearly, @DC_P gets it.