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Thread: Waukesha WI Rampage

  1. #111
    Member TGS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BillSWPA View Post
    I see multiple comments above about not waiting for an ambulance and transporting people to the hospital yourself. My training (basic first and and CPR only) has always been not to move someone unless absolutely necessary to remove them from an area of immediate danger.

    If one needs to move someone who is injured, how is the best way to do it, and where can one learn how to do it?
    The appropriate answer here is do what you've been taught to do, especially since you're a lawyer and likely understand the concept of negligence, breach, and damages...ie. doing what you've been specifically instructed not to do.

    Realistically, the chances of you injuring someone while moving them are exceptionally low. However, there's some additional considerations from a systems manager perspective in that we want to send specific patients to specific hospitals; you should not initiate self transport if you're not trained how to triage people within your areas EMS and hospital system, such as to assess the difference between a trauma code vs a trauma consult vs a Fastrack/triage....or especially if you lack the understanding of a given hospital's trauma capabilities. For instance, a community hospital really can't do much more for a trauma patient than ambulance, and when such patients show up at a community hospital they don't actually do a whole lot other than call an ambulance to take you to the appropriate hospital. In addition, the nearest trauma hospital may be on a divert status due to the sudden influx of patients, and now your patient may sit there with little attendance on the waiting room floor while they wait for a bay to open up or an ambulance/air ambulance to transport them to the appropriate facility.

    The amount of people who show up at a community hospital thinking it's a trauma is pretty significant, too. I've seen this a lot in LE planning as well, where people don't understand that just because 1 hospital in the Saint Bill SWPA Health Network is a trauma doesn't mean that all Saint Bill hospitals are trauma centers.

    In such cases it's very possible you're worsening the patients condition since you're delaying definitive care, not getting them there quicker. Unfortunately, how to "do this right" beyond telling you to wait for EMS isn't a question someone can give you an accurate answer to in 5 minutes, or possibly even within a 1-2 day TECC/TCCC class unless it specifically addressed as a key topic (which I can almost guarantee it won't simply due to liability). While we default to transporting ourselves in LE instead of waiting for an ambulance, we have the advantage of a radio system that connects to a dispatcher that can tell us which hospital is best able to receive us.

    I've been involved off and on with EMS since 2001 or so, have been a volunteer and professional, including rising to the position of a division chief at a fairly busy full time/professional agency. I would be hesitant to take the advice of someone telling you over the internet how to appropriately triage and move patients...like I said earlier, it's simply not a 5 minute answer, and not only requires hands on practice but also usually requires either experience or a real time link (such as dispatch) in the given system to make the judgement call. I totally agree with @ST911 on its value, I'm just not sure the answer on how to do it/how to learn it is straightforward in many locales if you're not in the emergency services.
    Last edited by TGS; 11-23-2021 at 03:20 PM.
    "Are you ready? Okay. Let's roll."- Last words of Todd Beamer

  2. #112
    Site Supporter S Jenks's Avatar
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    Re: hysterical family members complicating the situation, from a”Cop EMS” point of view-

    If at all possible, give them a task that keeps them occupied until more resources arrive.

    “I don’t want them driving by us. Go to the corner and flag down the ambulance, they’ll be here soon.”

    “Get me an armload of clean towels.”

    Or ol’ reliable - “The EMTs will be here in a minute. Can you write down/collect all your grandmother’s prescription medications so they don’t have to spend time doing it themselves?”

    Of course, sometimes it doesn’t work and they start screaming at you to “DO SOMETHING!”

  3. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by Coyotesfan97 View Post
    I don’t know how many times dealing with the relatives/bystanders and they were wigging out and the injured part was the calm one.
    Many years ago we were at a party that got kinda rowdy and a young hottie that was attempting to evade the drunk guys trying to throw her in the pool fell trying to climb over a wrought iron fence. She impaled her calf on one of the vertical rods and was hanging there upside down. I got there right after one of the guys that was chasing her lifted her up off the fence and laid her on the ground and backed away. I had grabbed a towel and expected gushing, but the blood vessels did that snap shut thing from being torn, so it wasn't bad. I am trying to keep her calm and shouted out to go get Randy, our coworker who was a long-term volunteer EMT (might even have been a paramedic by then).

    Randy the experienced EMT walks up with a beer in one hand and a smoke in the other, takes one look at the woman we are trying to keep calm, and says
    WOAH SHIT!!!!!!

  4. #114
    Site Supporter Totem Polar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hufnagel View Post
    you don't happen to have the actual book-o-feces link for that, do you?
    Yeah, but I’m not comfortable sharing it, since it’s the personal page for a BTDT dude that still works .gov. Apologies.
    ”But in the end all of these ideas just manufacture new criminals when the problem isn't a lack of criminals.” -JRB

  5. #115
    Site Supporter Coyotesfan97's Avatar
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    I liked telling injured people hey the worst is over. Fire’s on the way. I’m helping. Just hold on and we’ll get you tonthe hospital.
    Just a dog chauffeur that used to hold the dumb end of the leash.

  6. #116
    Abducted by Aliens Borderland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guerrero View Post
    [sarc]Oh, this just keeps getting better and better[/sarc]

    https://www.nationalreview.com/news/...ant-in-nevada/
    I've seen these fails by the state before.

    IIRC the shooter who killed 4 LE officers here was a fugitive from another state when released. Not to hijack this thread but this guys story is almost unbelievable.


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Lakewood_shooting
    In the P-F basket of deplorables.

  7. #117
    Member TGS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guerrero View Post
    [sarc]Oh, this just keeps getting better and better[/sarc]

    https://www.nationalreview.com/news/...ant-in-nevada/
    Sounds like the other state didn't want to extradite him. Generally when someone is arrested and they have a warrant from another state, you have to call them to verify the warrant and verify whether they're extraditable....the answer isn't always yes.

    However, you'd think his evasion from a warrant in another state would satisfy the court to remand him into custody instead of releasing him on bail, though.

    Clown show.
    "Are you ready? Okay. Let's roll."- Last words of Todd Beamer

  8. #118
    Modding this sack of shit BehindBlueI's's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TGS View Post
    Sounds like the other state didn't want to extradite him. Generally when someone is arrested and they have a warrant from another state, you have to call them to verify the warrant and verify whether they're extraditable....the answer isn't always yes.
    Yes. Florida is notorious for "stay away warrants" where they keep them active but won't extradite.

    Fun fact: extradition in this context just means they will come get them. Even if it says no extradition, you can take the wanted person to them. I've seen it done.
    Sorta around sometimes for some of your shitty mod needs.

  9. #119
    Member TGS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BehindBlueI's View Post
    Yes. Florida is notorious for "stay away warrants" where they keep them active but won't extradite.

    Fun fact: extradition in this context just means they will come get them. Even if it says no extradition, you can take the wanted person to them. I've seen it done.
    Done it myself with a local warrant from a local agency that just didn't want to come pick them up. Me and another guy said fuck it, drove him over and walked in the lobby. "He's your problem now."

    We were backed by our supervisor in doing that, which for those of you not in LE should understand is kind of a bold/dick move depending on the context. On our end it was because nobody on that night wanted to be the last LEO in contact with a guy with an arrest warrant for assault (on a police officer, no less) that just let him walk out the door, and our only excuse was that some desk sergeant on a phone told us he wouldn't come get him.

    There was a similar game that EMS agencies in NJ used to play with each other before social media became a thing. They'd take "Frequent flyer" drunks and put them on the train up to the next town with a note that said something to the effect of "he's yours tonight". Can't do that stuff anymore.
    "Are you ready? Okay. Let's roll."- Last words of Todd Beamer

  10. #120
    We would typically set the extradition distance depending upon the severity of the charged offense. Now for most misdemeanor charges we aren’t going to the expense of extradition past an adjoining county. Some jurisdictions would just have us issue the wanted person a new court date so they wouldn’t have to bother, or if they didn’t have bed space.

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