Waukesha WI Rampage

[Maple Syrup Actual]

I'm not a police officer and I'm not going to firing at a speeding vehicle on a crowded street. You go ahead if you think it's a wise decision.

Don't fall into the trap of assuming the circumstances you saw, are the ones you'll get.

I believe the original point was "if a situation presents itself in which you DO have the opportunity - I e. The vehicle is momentarily stopped in front of you - is the only thing preventing you from making that shot fixed by buying different ammo?"

Nobody is saying "in this instance, the best thing to do would have been to shoot at that vehicle from whatever vantage point."

But if you've ever seen vehicles lose control you have probably seen this happen: it hits something, like a wall, pillar, or parked car, and stays basically stationary for ten seconds while the driver figures out what he's stuck on and how to pull away.

Given that vehicle attacks are increasing...if you're choosing ammo, why wouldn't you choose ammo that would let you make that shot?

[TQP]

It can be done but it takes resources, for sure, which most places don't have. The marshaling area needs to be treated/constructed like a sally port, where there's two access control points and only one end can be open at a time which prevents a vehicle from running through onto the route. You can use large, heavy vehicles for this or delta barriers.....the latter which are very uncommon outside a handful of major metro PDs, the former which run out real quick.

NYPD has stuff like this down like a well oiled machine. They have an incredible stockpile of physical security resources that most states can't even pull together, though. They probably have more portable delta barriers than any government agency in the entire US, more jersey barriers reserved for AT/FP than anyone except the entirety of the DOD put together, and a fleet of trash trucks, snow plows/salters that absolutely dwarfs what most counties have.

Point taken. I work in a suburb about the size of Waukesha, and was thinking about our Christmas parade, and the route, and it's just not feasible here. We just don't have the equipment and manpower.

[SoCalDep]

The Rt. 80 school bus crash near me a couple years ago caused me to get such gear, both a "bigger" set (fits in a 50cal can) and a smaller trauma kit.
The recent death of someone near here caused me to get auto fire extinguishers for all my cars.

My thoughts on this subject comes from watching some people (and one in particular) die. Thankfully it wasn’t my lack of skill and prep (at the time) that contributed...but it could have. It inspired a lot of work on trauma care. I don’t have a military background where this is probably more poignant.. That said...

Don’t be me (then)...Regrets suck...we can be heroes with guns but we’re more likely to be heroes saving people.

Let’s be prepared to save people too.

[Joe in PNG]

I know a lot of people who were really, really close to the incident. One friend's daughter witnessed the impact- and was missed, praise the Lord.

In fact, I used to live in the area, and would regularly walk that intersection.

[BillSWPA]

RedState is now reporting the identity of the driver, who apparently has a criminal record, and may have been fleeing from something else when he ran into the parade.


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[paherne]

Ammunition choice, nor firearm choice will not prevent future incidents like this. We use either police vehicles or DPW vehicles to block intersections in similar parade events. Your bullet, unless it's a 50 BMG is not going to do shit.

[HCM]

[HCM]

While not necessarily an objective source Andy NGO info is generally reliable.

[RJ]

Damn. 5 dead, 40 injured.

This is horrific and depressing. I'm not sure what to say. My heart goes out to the families of those who went through this.

I am not sure what goes through the mind of someone who does this. Sad.

[rob_s]

Lots of bullets go through glass just fine. That said, for 99% of the people present (or more) that car was gone before they would have been able to do a damn thing. Before we discuss anything about ammo… Do we carry trauma supplies? I carry a Ryker Nylon ankle trauma kit. Would it help? Maybe or not, but just as I’d feel horrible having the opportunity to stop the threat and not… I’d feel worse watching someone die who I could have helped if I had the equipment I’ve been trained to use… Especially if that someone was my family.

Pretty much my thoughts. Not every assault is defendable with a carry gun.

Sometimes you either have to be equipped to deal with tragedies you can’t prevent, or avoid events like this altogether, or, or simply learn to accept the risk.

Statistically, despite what an over-indulgence in media might lead one to believe, I’m gonna go with “getting mowed down by lunatic in car” is so low on the likelihood scale as to not necessitate factoring in to planning.