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Thread: Suspects With Body Armor Thread

  1. #11
    Site Supporter Totem Polar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blues View Post
    Maybe a pelvic shot (or two) and a head shot if the opportunity is present. Really depends on the kit the individual is wearing and what is presented to you.
    Not that anyone should take my opinion over the postings from all the far more experienced upthread, but I am a believer in the “shoot what’s available until something better becomes available or your hits make something better available” bumper sticker.

    I’m also a believer in knowing where the ‘employees only’ back door is, anytime that I’m not carrying a gauge or the Daniel Defense… which is pretty much all the time, 24/7/365.
    ”But in the end all of these ideas just manufacture new criminals when the problem isn't a lack of criminals.” -JRB

  2. #12
    Member TGS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fly out View Post
    I hope this doesn't seem frivolous in a Law Enforcement thread...

    If I'm in a stop'n'rob when that guy comes through the door, one of two things happened. Either I'm out of town and refueling, in which case I probably have 16 9mm, or, I popped out for something, and I may only have five 148gr wadcutters.

    Do I spend one or two of those five precious rounds going below the armor, or do I save them for above the armor? I realize this is going to be dependent on how things are developing, but...would the assembled minds have a general rule of thumb?

    A few more videos of miscreants in body armor and my milk run/j-frame calculus might be rejiggered, permanently.
    I think this very quickly underlines the "capacity is opportunity" mantra.

    You're very unlikely to break the pelvic girdle with a pistol and obtain a mobility-kill, but you'll at least start the "timer" for exsanguination and could put the rest of your eggs in the "hope" basket; see @BehindBlueI's observations as a homicide detective on citizens almost always winning if they're able to fire at all.

    There's a good video we discussed here years ago, probably pre-dating your membership. I think it was out of Sri Lanka. A bunch of officers shot a guy in the pelvis and he proceeded to chop a few of them up with his machete. He died from exsanguination.....eventually.
    "Are you ready? Okay. Let's roll."- Last words of Todd Beamer

  3. #13
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    For the indoor range slow fire shooters that think COM at 7 yards is “good enough” better listen up and have the skills and automaticity to transition and hit a smaller target if that’s what’s opportune.

    Nobody ever wished for less skill or less bullets in a gunfight.

  4. #14
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    We have been encountering more and more armor on the street, both soft and hard. The last guy that we lost rolled a room and faced a guy with a long-gun and soft armor. He "lost" the gunfight but got rounds on the BG that worked...not well enough to save him but effective enough to take the BG out of the fight. I've noticed on the street(and as a military medic) that lower abdominal and pelvic hits tend to make bag guys unhappy enough to often stop fighting...even with low velocity weapons. You never really can say that its 100% effective...humans being the unpredictable beings that they are...

  5. #15
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    Other recent examples:

    Man in Body Armor Killed After Police Shootout in New Jersey



    A man was killed and three New Jersey police officers were injured after a shootout involving a rifle-wielding suspect sporting body armor who was then killed by police, authorities said.

    One officer was shot in both legs after 11:30 a.m. outside a home on Myrtle Avenue in Irvington, while the other two cops sustained lesser gunshot injuries.

    According to attorney general's office, police were called to the scene after reports of shots fired and a man being gunned down. The shooter fired at the man after an argument, police sources said.

    When officers arrived at the scene, the gunman appeared to be in full body armor — prepared for a shootout. Officials said cops exchanged gunfire with the suspect, identified as 39-year-old Kaizen Crossen, killing him.


    Suspect in police killing wore body armor, but authorities say that's not unheard of

    https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...214-story.html

    The 44-year-old convicted felon charged with fatally shooting Chicago police Cmdr. Paul Bauer was wearing a long jacket that concealed a bulletproof vest, according to police.

    In Illinois and at least 25 other states, wearing body armor while committing a crime is a felony. Convicted felons are barred from possessing bulletproof vests — which can be purchased for as little as $250 on Walmart’s website — in Illinois, but the vests are otherwise permitted. And illegally possessing both a firearm and bulletproof vest is a felony that carries a minimum 10-year prison sentence.
    Florida gunman wearing full body armor kills 4 people, including infant in mother's arms

    https://abc7chicago.com/florida-shoo...baby/11001541/

    Florida gunman wearing full body armor kills 4 people, including infant in mother's arms
    CNNWire By Madeline Holcombe, Eric Levenson and Gregory Lemos, CNN
    Monday, September 6, 2021

    EMBED <>MORE VIDEOS
    A man outfitted in body armor who described himself as a "survivalist" fatally shot four people, including an infant in their mother's arms.

    LAKELAND, Fla. -- Four people -- a man, an infant and the child's mother and grandmother -- all lost their lives early Sunday morning in what a Florida sheriff called an "active shooter rampage" carried about by a former Marine.

    The shooting took place at a property outside Lakeland, Florida, and escalated when the suspect, outfitted in body armor, engaged in a firefight with law enforcement before surrendering to authorities.
    https://thehill.com/homenews/state-w...sed-body-armor

    Boulder shooting suspect had assault rifle, used body armor

    TheHill.com
    Boulder shooting suspect had assault rifle, used body armor
    BY JORDAN WILLIAMS - 03/23/21 02:00 PM EDT 1,201

    The suspect detained in connection with the shooting at a grocery store in Boulder, Colo., that left 10 people dead had an assault rifle and used body armor, according to authorities.

    The new details were noted in an arrest warrant for 21-year-old Ahmad Al Aliwi Alissa published by The Colorado Sun.

    According to the arrest warrant, multiple people called the police as the shooting took place at a King Soopers grocery store. One witness said that the suspect was “wearing an armored vest and was about 5’8'' tall, with a chubby build and and approximately 280 pounds.”
    Man With Body Armor Killed by LAPD in Hollywood Identified
    The coroner's office has identified the man killed on Sunset and Fairfax as 34-year-old Richard Solitro.
    By Kim Tobin • Published April 25, 2021 • Updated on April 26, 2021 at 10:20 am


    https://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/l...olice/2581409/

    LAPD says their officers were confronted on Sunset Boulevard Saturday, when a driver cut them off, hit reverse and backed into their patrol car. They say the man got out, confronted the officers while wearing a bulletproof vest and had his hand behind his back.

    The LAPD say they ordered the man to show his hands several times, before he started counting down, and they opened fire.

    Solitro died at the scene, but police say he did not have a weapon.
    Last edited by HCM; 11-21-2021 at 05:01 PM.

  6. #16
    Modding this sack of shit BehindBlueI's's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fly out View Post
    I hope this doesn't seem frivolous in a Law Enforcement thread...

    If I'm in a stop'n'rob when that guy comes through the door, one of two things happened. Either I'm out of town and refueling, in which case I probably have 16 9mm, or, I popped out for something, and I may only have five 148gr wadcutters.

    Do I spend one or two of those five precious rounds going below the armor, or do I save them for above the armor? I realize this is going to be dependent on how things are developing, but...would the assembled minds have a general rule of thumb?

    A few more videos of miscreants in body armor and my milk run/j-frame calculus might be rejiggered, permanently.
    Quote Originally Posted by TGS View Post
    I think this very quickly underlines the "capacity is opportunity" mantra.

    You're very unlikely to break the pelvic girdle with a pistol and obtain a mobility-kill, but you'll at least start the "timer" for exsanguination and could put the rest of your eggs in the "hope" basket; see @BehindBlueI's observations as a homicide detective on citizens almost always winning if they're able to fire at all.

    There's a good video we discussed here years ago, probably pre-dating your membership. I think it was out of Sri Lanka. A bunch of officers shot a guy in the pelvis and he proceeded to chop a few of them up with his machete. He died from exsanguination.....eventually.


    TGS is correct, even with multiple attacker events. Robbers tend to want to live to rob another day and professional robbers know that it's a Murder charge if someone gets killed (even on their side, in my state) during the robbery. In the face of any opposition and when there was an opportunity to flee, they did so. The exceptions were almost entirely entanglements. The bad guy was entangled with the good guy either before the draw began (generally because the bad guy spotted the gun or the draw stroke and attempted to intervene to prevent a draw) or as the draw was taking place. Once entangled they tended to stay entangled until they disarmed the person or could otherwise safely flee. Note most fled after the entangled fight, even if they won. I suspect it's because they think they've spent too much time inside and feel the pressure to escape prior to police arrival building, but that's supposition only.

    I would recommend biding your time if possible. You probably won't be the focus of the suspect, especially if you don't appear to be a threat at the first glance. Then use surprise to your advantage while not under observation. Then, if you need to shoot, go for a high probability target. If you can't hit the head, a pelvis shot is probably going to put them to flight or cause a psychological stop and surrender. If you're flanking, there's almost always gaps on the sides of armor, especially in the arm pit area. Another reason to bide your time if you can.
    Sorta around sometimes for some of your shitty mod needs.

  7. #17
    Site Supporter Rex G's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fly out View Post
    I hope this doesn't seem frivolous in a Law Enforcement thread...

    If I'm in a stop'n'rob when that guy comes through the door, one of two things happened. Either I'm out of town and refueling, in which case I probably have 16 9mm, or, I popped out for something, and I may only have five 148gr wadcutters.

    Do I spend one or two of those five precious rounds going below the armor, or do I save them for above the armor? I realize this is going to be dependent on how things are developing, but...would the assembled minds have a general rule of thumb?

    A few more videos of miscreants in body armor and my milk run/j-frame calculus might be rejiggered, permanently.
    I do not really think of 148-grain target wadcutters as being something that will have much effect on a pelvis. Really, for me, the run to the little corner store is time to UP-gun. Most such stores, in this area, have no rear or side exits.

    Considering that my “lazy” way to carry a gun, if I do not want to wear trousers with substantial pockets, is to grab a Safepacker, with a sling attached, I have to go more trouble to carry a pocket pistol, than a big .45 or .357 Mag, because the big gun is already in a bag, more ready-to-go.
    Retar’d LE. Kinesthetic dufus.

    Don’t tread on volcanos!

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rex G View Post
    I do not really think of 148-grain target wadcutters as being something that will have much effect on a pelvis. Really, for me, the run to the little corner store is time to UP-gun. Most such stores, in this area, have no rear or side exits.

    Considering that my “lazy” way to carry a gun, if I do not want to wear trousers with substantial pockets, is to grab a Safepacker, with a sling attached, I have to go more trouble to carry a pocket pistol, than a big .45 or .357 Mag, because the big gun is already in a bag, more ready-to-go.
    So, you throw the safe packer sling over shoulder/neck?

  9. #19
    Site Supporter Rex G's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric_L View Post
    So, you throw the safe packer sling over shoulder/neck?
    Cross-body, on sling, or, just hand-held.
    Retar’d LE. Kinesthetic dufus.

    Don’t tread on volcanos!

  10. #20
    Dot Driver Kyle Reese's Avatar
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    Suspects With Body Armor Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JCN View Post
    For the indoor range slow fire shooters that think COM at 7 yards is “good enough” better listen up and have the skills and automaticity to transition and hit a smaller target if that’s what’s opportune.

    Nobody ever wished for less skill or less bullets in a gunfight.
    You mean the same people who don’t draw from a holster and think that timers are for Timmy McGamer?

    The same folks who will castigate us for shooting more than one round in 4 seconds because it’s “rapid fire”?

    [emoji41]


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