I think a single dot rules for competition, where shot calling is so important, but the circle is very desirable where your targets don't give you an opportunity to pick what hand your shoot with, what the sun angle is, and provide a chance to adjust your dot intensity during "make ready!"Originally Posted by Clusterfrack
Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.
That's a great point. The circle is visible over a larger area when misaligned. As well, window size is typically smaller in RDS on carry guns.I think a single dot rules for competition, where shot calling is so important, but the circle is very desirable where your targets don't give you an opportunity to pick what hand your shoot with, what the sun angle is, and provide a chance to adjust your dot intensity during "make ready!"
“There is no growth in the comfort zone.”--Jocko Willink
"You can never have too many knives." --Joe Ambercrombie
The 407CO reticle seems like a pretty good compromise. I don't have any issues seeing the spot where the reticle lifts on a target, but it still works great when it's not on the perfect intensity. It also seems to bloom less than a single dot, and doesn't need to be set to an intensity that is so bright that pulls attention from the target to the dot. I just wish Holosun would put it in the 509t and the 407k.I think a single dot rules for competition, where shot calling is so important, but the circle is very desirable where your targets don't give you an opportunity to pick what hand your shoot with, what the sun angle is, and provide a chance to adjust your dot intensity during "make ready!"
For USPSA CO, it would seem not:
https://www.ssusa.org/articles/2021/...d-gear-in-2020
"Trijicon’s SRO emerged as the most popular sight with 33 percent of the competitors choosing it, up from 15 percent in 2019. The SIG ROMEO3MAX and XL were next at 19 percent, despite being absent from the 2019 match. Leupold’s DeltaPoint Pro was next at 12 percent, down from 33 percent. The SIG ROMEO1 came in at 10 percent, down from 24 percent. C-More’s RTS2 optic was absent in 2019 but was selected by 6 percent of the shooters in 2020, while the Vortex Venom came in at the same 6 percent, although down from 9 percent in 2019."
Article is datelined Mar 21, so reasonably current. I added up the percentages of these top 6 and they cover 86% of optics in CO.
FAST coin or any other standards is just short hand for a level of proficiency.
The issue is that how one uses equipment and how effectively they use it is a prerequisite to the discussion.
If you asked a bunch of golfers what driver shaft and loft they prefer, you’d kind of want the information from people who have similar swings and skills to you.
If you tried to emulate the pro golfer club specs it wouldn’t work very well.
So I do think some of the context of how good a shooter and what their intended purposes are.
In this thread you have the whole gamut of opinions from D class shooters to GMs. Listening to opinions isn’t helpful without context.
The best advice I’ve found is when someone asks someone with broad skill, experience and level of achievement what they would recommend for them. Not what they use themselves.
@Clusterfrack I use a single dot for gaming… because the window is large.
For a small window sight like a 507k I actually prefer the circle dot for defensive work and practice because the dot and optic are never resting in one place, it’s always moving. It doesn’t bother my target focus because I’m never staring through the circle dot. The gun and optic and window is coming into view and leaving after the trigger point.
The circle dot helps with my dynamic calculation at speed when using a small window.
When I use a larger micro optic window even like an RMSc the single dot is fine. But the 507k while moving and rapid recoil management and transitioning, it helps me track.
If people aren’t good enough to shoot dynamically they might prefer the small dot on a small optic but they’re likely taking forever to stabilize and take the shot.
The first shot in this video is on a 2” steel target while moving and using a circle dot reticle.
Bakersfield shot at 100% even out to 25 yards with circle dot reticle.
Here’s a video I did for my coaching thread about window size:
You can imagine that with an optic even smaller than the RMR like the 507k, you lose a single dot off the screen. But if you have a ring, you can still track the dot like a virtual larger window.
But for people who aren’t good enough to track recoil at speed and just stare at stable dots slowly, sure. Maybe they need a 2 MOA center to keep their target focus.
The gun and optic for me are never sitting there long enough for me to change away from target focus.
For a D level shooter, no real desire to compete(club USPSA practices are fun), no centerfire dot experience, old eyes, goal to learn about dots and shot calling? Have used a single dot on a .22 pistol, seemed to work well for me.
If using a Holosun I would probably use the 2MOA when doing slow fire target practice and single round shot calling.
If doing recoil management at speed practice I would use the full circle plus dot because you’ll need all the help to find the dot that you can get.
Later when the precision and tracking improve, a single dot with a big window can be used for something like hitting a shot shell off a transition and draw at 27 feet.
But I don’t expect that kind of distance or target precision for a self defense gun in my use so I favor trackable vision over some precision. I’d rather be able to hit an A zone at 10 yards quickly and repeatedly than a 2” target at 10 yards precisely.
To restate the obvious, the Holosun reticle options are pretty much only offered by Holosun. Since most high level competitors are mostly using larger window optics like the Romeo 3 Max/XL and the SRO, and not using Holosun optics on CO pistols, single dot optics rule CO. It would be interesting if Holosun offered a more competition oriented pistol optic with reticle choices. Right now, I am experimenting with using just a circle on an AEMS a on a PCC, and it seems to work well.
As Josh stated, the 407CO is very attractive, and seems to bring advantages of the circle (easy target focused and better in weird sun angles) with shot calling and familiarity of a single dot. I think enough of the 407CO, I just ordered a few more, and have been using one on my EDC 19. What I would really like is for Holosun to offer a 2 moa single dot, 8 moa circle dot, the circle only and circle dot on all their pistol optics.
Here is how I think the various optics currently stack up.
The Romeo 3 Max and XL are the best pure gaming optics because of their large displays, optical clarity, performance in low sun angles, and minimal frame. They suffer by being fragile to blows, having +/- buttons that can stop working, and on older units have adjustment screws that come loose internally (seems fixed now). Also they don’t lend themselves to coexisting with BUIS.
The SRO has been very durable, more so than the Romeo 3 Max, and I use one on my CO practice pistol, rather than beat up a Romeo. I don’t like the coke bottle lens and the double dot in low sun angles on the SRO.
For an open emitter EDC optics, on a larger than slimline pistol, I like the 407CO or 507C more than a RMR, because of battery changing, reticle choices and the larger display.
The 407k/507k followed by the RMSc for slim line pistols.
For closed emitters, the 509T V2 and hopefully soon the Acro P2.
Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.
I just realized you added PCC in there.
Yes, my consistent top 10 national PCC friend uses a reticle with a circle dot and uses it to help holdover.
I hear this a common setup.
I set my PCC up the same way. Center dot is at 7 yards. Upper half of ring is good to 15-20 yards and 25-50 yards is at the top of the circle.
Thanks!
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