Snubby revolvers with wadcutters

[4given]

I'm using Double Tap 38 Special 148GR hard cast full wadcutter match. Works well in both my snubbies.

https://doubletapammo.com/collection...er-match-20rds

[JCN]

The 2" .38 load of choice is a classic case of forgotten knowledge being rediscovered and of the limits of engineering.

I'm as guilty as anyone around on this, having asked the question early on in the "That last glass of whiskey..." thread. That was in May of this year and I've been around this Maypole more times than is comfortable to admit.

I suspect just using Federal target wadcutters (or equivalents) is the easy button here and there really isn't anything else significantly better for a lightweight or a heavyweight 2" .38 revolver. Smugly, I must admit to having a 150ish round stash of Jim Cirillo's 750 fps FMJ wadcutter load. Which also shows how long I've been at this issue. I think that would be an ideal lightweight snubby choice, particularly if it's velocity was even lowered just a bit for less recoil. But, barring hand loading, I don't see that happening anytime soon.

Thanks for that post.

The context is the Ruger LCR9 has great ballistics with 147+P HST and has less recoil but similar ballistics to the 357 short barrel Gold Dot.

So the extension was: Would a 2” 380 be ballistically better than a wimpy wadcutter in a similar 15 oz snubby?

Then the question came down to how much would you rather have a 150gr wadcutter going 750 versus a 90gr XTP going 1100fps?

[03RN]

I want whatever can reliably penetrate to the vitals.

[314159]

Context, as they say, is important. Much becomes clear.

[JCN]

I want whatever can reliably penetrate to the vitals.

I want something that I can shoot rapidly and accurately.

I wonder if population density plays into it when choosing ammo and firearms.

[jetfire]

Just to comment on the wadcutters chosen for this; no one in their right mind is recommending carrying a 900 FPS wadcutter for self defense. The whole point, and why we recommend stuff like the Federal GMM or the Winchester Target wadcutters is that they're at like, 700 FPS which makes them very soft shooting and easy to place on target. If I'm going to carry something making 900 FPS out of a snub I might as well just carry Gold Dots.

If you look at Lucky Gunner's 38 Special data for the Winchester 148gr Super-X wadcutter, that's what we're looking for. Around 700 FPS out of a snub, and 15+ inches of penetration after defeating 4LD.

[JTMcC]

Just to comment on the wadcutters chosen for this; no one in their right mind is recommending carrying a 900 FPS wadcutter for self defense. The whole point, and why we recommend stuff like the Federal GMM or the Winchester Target wadcutters is that they're at like, 700 FPS which makes them very soft shooting and easy to place on target. If I'm going to carry something making 900 FPS out of a snub I might as well just carry Gold Dots.

If you look at Lucky Gunner's 38 Special data for the Winchester 148gr Super-X wadcutter, that's what we're looking for. Around 700 FPS out of a snub, and 15+ inches of penetration after defeating 4LD.

Agreed on that bold part, the only reason to use non expanding bullets is when you have marginal (or just plain not enough) power to drive an expanding bullet to the vitals, or, in old days (Elmer) bullet construction was iffy and unreliable.

That's why handgunners use big bore non expanding bullets on larger animals. There is no reason for a hunter with a .375 H&H magnum to shoot elk with a solid 'cause he can drive a premium expanding bullet deeper than need be. That same hunter on a cape buffalo quartering away will probably have a solid loaded because his level of horsepower just became marginal for the circumstances.

With handguns we are almost always working with marginal levels of power, but many people experimenting over many years, have given us the best we can get with what we currently have. 70% or so meplat, non deforming WFN or LFN bullet, gets us as deep as the level of power allows while still giving us some range.
100% meplat (wadcutter) , non expanding bullet goes very deep and creates as much damage as possible without expansion but limits our range.

Pick your spot on the scale of: power available, size of the target, range to the target and make your best informed choices.

Some of the WFN types are creeping VERY close to full wadcutter profile. Again we have to make our choices. But a 1 7/8" .38 Special surely has it's limitations and bullet choice becomes pretty critical . Of course the monometal expanding bullets like the XPB change the game a bit and are very interesting in how deep they will drive while still opening up.

[03RN]

I want something that I can shoot rapidly and accurately.

I wonder if population density plays into it when choosing ammo and firearms.

I do to but it's all relative. I can shoot a full sized 9mm faster than a .357. Certainly once you're talking more than 6 rounds. The difference is just not a big deal in the real world.

9 rounds of 255gr swc @940fps loaded up here. So far today I haven't had any interactions with anyone outside my family.

[Duces Tecum]

I wonder if population density plays into it when choosing ammo and firearms.

Seems like the EasyButton would be Doc's List. For political reasons, cross-referencing with the largest police department in the area might be wise. Revolver ammunition may not be authorized for service carry, but it's possible that authorization for use by retired / undercover people would be listed.


Duces

[JCN]

Seems like the EasyButton would be Doc's List. For political reasons, cross-referencing with the largest police department in the area might be wise. Revolver ammunition may not be authorized for service carry, but it's possible that authorization for use by retired / undercover people would be listed.


Duces

I didn’t see 38 special or 380 listed? We’re talking about underpowered ammo that nobody is really recommending.

@jetfire

Being a noob to wadcutters I had no context.

I still don’t know the answer to whether a 150gr 700fps nonexpanding 38 is better or worse than a nonexpanding 380 in something like a Lehigh Xtreme Penetrator at 90gr and 1100 fps (very mild and very shootable in a 380 snub).

That was the original context of the discussion.

If I’m going to carry a snub, the 9mm LCR9 is easier to shoot than 357 gold dots out of a 17oz snub.

If I’m going to carry a 14oz snub, would I be better off with 150gr slow wadcutters or 90gr fast solid copper bullets?
What if the copper gave better ballistics while also being more shootable a la the 9mm/357 trade off?