Snubby revolvers with wadcutters

[03RN]

I can get a picture later but no expansion at all that I could tell.



It’s exactly what I expected! That’s why I was so perplexed when @03RN said that wadcutters didn’t overpenetrate and that they were preferred for self defense. Maybe he was talking about a soft lead one or maybe it’s that these are too spicy or maybe he was remembering the semis?

Also remember that 1000fps is out of probably a 3-4” barrel.

In the reviews, these are probably 850 or so out of a J frame. Underwood is famous for their consistency.

Are you sure I didn't say that they wouldn't over penetrate for my use or that I was talking about the standard 700ish fps of normal wadcutters? If you asked me before posting the video if a hot underwood wadcutter would go through a block of synthetic gel I'd of said yes without much thought.

I've never actually shot a wadcutter (I did just order 2700 of them to load up though). I don't prefer them but people like doc and Mr Dobbs recommend them at times.

[JCN]

Are you sure I didn't say that they wouldn't over penetrate for my use or that I was talking about the standard 700ish fps of normal wadcutters? If you asked me before posting the video if a hot underwood wadcutter would go through a block of synthetic gel I'd of said yes without much thought.

I've never actually shot a wadcutter (I did just order 2700 of them to load up though). I don't prefer them but people like doc and Mr Dobbs recommend them at times.

I don’t think we ever qualified the particulars but I seem to recall you saying something about tumbling so they didn’t overpenetrate. I’ll try and find the thread where we discussed it.

It was when I was saying I’d rather have a 147gr 9mm Gold Dot out of a snub than a 357 magnum because shootability and over a 38 special because power when you brought up wadcutters.

I was kind of impressed by the semi-wadcutter though.

[03RN]

I don’t think we ever qualified the particulars but I seem to recall you saying something about tumbling so they didn’t overpenetrate. I’ll try and find the thread where we discussed it.

It was when I was saying I’d rather have a 147gr 9mm Gold Dot out of a snub than a 357 magnum because shootability and over a 38 special because power when you brought up wadcutters.

I was kind of impressed by the semi-wadcutter though.

I remember the conversation but I don't think I said they tumbled. The reason I like swc is because the flat face aids in a straighter path in animals.

[WDR]

I can get a picture later but no expansion at all that I could tell.

Disappointing, but not surprising. A lot of the 158gr SWC-HP bullets don't expand well at all from snubs.

There is a lot of talking past each other going on here RE: full wadcutter bullets. Bottom line as I see it: "target" velocity softer swaged factory loads from Win/Fed/Rem are probably not going to penetrate as much as harder cast bullets from the various boutique manufacturers, which are almost universally loaded a bit hotter than the big 3 brands. A harder cast DEWC loaded at "target" velocity, might be a good idea, if you think you need more penetration from your snub fodder than you'll get with say, FGMM. That is not a common "factory" load from either the Big 3 or the "boutique" guys, so you may have to roll your own.

The biggest reason to shoot wadcutters in snubbies isn't the bullet shape or its penetration abilities (or lack thereof), its to have lighter recoiling ammo that's easier to make hits with. Loading it with hot hard cast wadcutters defeats that purpose. The snub is a compromise gun, as Doc has said.

[MolonLabe416]

I generally carry the Buffalo Bore HCWC.

[Salamander]

Bottom line as I see it: "target" velocity softer swaged factory loads from Win/Fed/Rem are probably not going to penetrate as much as harder cast bullets from the various boutique manufacturers, which are almost universally loaded a bit hotter than the big 3 brands. A harder cast DEWC loaded at "target" velocity, might be a good idea, if you think you need more penetration from your snub fodder than you'll get with say, FGMM. That is not a common "factory" load from either the Big 3 or the "boutique" guys, so you may have to roll your own.

The biggest reason to shoot wadcutters in snubbies isn't the bullet shape or its penetration abilities (or lack thereof), its to have lighter recoiling ammo that's easier to make hits with. Loading it with hot hard cast wadcutters defeats that purpose. The snub is a compromise gun, as Doc has said.

The above is a good summary.

OP: Keep in mind that Federal 38sp +p 158gr LSWCHP is described on the box as "high velocity" at 900 fps (presumably out of a longer barrel). So a 150 DEWC at 1000 is a fairly hot load by 38 sp standards. 9mm +p 147gr HST is spec'd at 1050 fps, for comparison. I can't see a lot of good reasons for a DEWC that hot other than for a woods gun. Loaded down, yes; coated DEWC don't lead the way some soft swaged HBWC do, and if loaded a little long some brands (SNS) have enough of a bevel that it's possible if not ideal to use a speedloader. I haven't chrono'd my DEWC reloads but I can assure you they're not anywhere near that fast and the recoil is modest out of a 4-inch K-frame or a Colt 3-inch D-frame.

[revchuck38]

The suggestion is usually something like a federal gold metal match wadcutter. The product description on Federal’s site is like 690 fps out of a 4 inch barrel.

Jason

Federal GMM chronographed at 635 fps from my 642. From what I've read, the Winchester and R-P loads are in the same ballpark.

[JCN]

I remember the conversation but I don't think I said they tumbled. The reason I like swc is because the flat face aids in a straighter path in animals.

Found it. I think we talked past each other and I thought you were recommending 38 wadcutters for self defense instead of 380 out of a snub.



Makes sense if comparing a soft slow version of wadcutters against 380.

His wadcutters in the test linked still seemed to overpenetrate?

[03RN]

Found it. I think we talked past each other and I thought you were recommending 38 wadcutters for self defense instead of 380 out of a snub.



Makes sense if comparing a soft slow version of wadcutters against 380.

His wadcutters in the test linked still seemed to overpenetrate?

I was understanding what you were saying. If I recommend something that sometimes overpenetrates then it just reflects that I like penetration. I'm carrying 255gr swc @ 940fps as we speak.

[314159]

The 2" .38 load of choice is a classic case of forgotten knowledge being rediscovered and of the limits of engineering.

I'm as guilty as anyone around on this, having asked the question early on in the "That last glass of whiskey..." thread. That was in May of this year and I've been around this Maypole more times than is comfortable to admit.

I suspect just using Federal target wadcutters (or equivalents) is the easy button here and there really isn't anything else significantly better for a lightweight or a heavyweight 2" .38 revolver. Smugly, I must admit to having a 150ish round stash of Jim Cirillo's 750 fps FMJ wadcutter load. Which also shows how long I've been at this issue. I think that would be an ideal lightweight snubby choice, particularly if it's velocity was even lowered just a bit for less recoil. But, barring hand loading, I don't see that happening anytime soon.