Snubby revolvers with wadcutters

[03RN]

I didn’t see 38 special or 380 listed? We’re talking about underpowered ammo that nobody is really recommending.

@jetfire

Being a noob to wadcutters I had no context.

I still don’t know the answer to whether a 150gr 700fps nonexpanding 38 is better or worse than a nonexpanding 380 in something like a Lehigh Xtreme Penetrator at 90gr and 1100 fps (very mild and very shootable in a 380 snub).

That was the original context of the discussion.

If I’m going to carry a snub, the 9mm LCR9 is easier to shoot than 357 gold dots out of a 17oz snub.

If I’m going to carry a 14oz snub, would I be better off with 150gr slow wadcutters or 90gr fast solid copper bullets?
What if the copper gave better ballistics while also being more shootable a la the 9mm/357 trade off?

Coming from a hunting background and seeing people shot or dismembered by all manner of ordnance I'd take the 148gr wc over a 90gr solid copper bullet.

[Norville]

I didn’t see 38 special or 380 listed? We’re talking about underpowered ammo that nobody is really recommending.

@jetfire

Being a noob to wadcutters I had no context.

I still don’t know the answer to whether a 150gr 700fps nonexpanding 38 is better or worse than a nonexpanding 380 in something like a Lehigh Xtreme Penetrator at 90gr and 1100 fps (very mild and very shootable in a 380 snub).

That was the original context of the discussion.

If I’m going to carry a snub, the 9mm LCR9 is easier to shoot than 357 gold dots out of a 17oz snub.

If I’m going to carry a 14oz snub, would I be better off with 150gr slow wadcutters or 90gr fast solid copper bullets?
What if the copper gave better ballistics while also being more shootable a la the 9mm/357 trade off?

Doc GKR’s take:

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....0-ACP-vs-38-Sp

[GAP]

Doc GKR’s take:

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....0-ACP-vs-38-Sp

The part that confuses me is how the Federal full wadcutter is recommended but isn’t it considered softer lead?

“When faced with too little penetration, as is common with lightweight .38 Sp JHP loads or too much penetration like with the wadcutters, then go with penetration. Agencies around here have used the Winchester 148 gr standard pressure lead target wadcutter (X38SMRP), as well as the Federal (GM38A) version--both work.”

I love shooting them from a 642 but I don’t have confidence in them penetrating thick bones. Isn’t the “too much penetration” argument related to how far it can travel through jello without any obstruction? Am I wrong? I haven’t found anything specially on this topic.

[JCN]

Doc GKR’s take:

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....0-ACP-vs-38-Sp

Yes, but that’s comparing a 38 revolver to a 380 semi-auto.

Not a 38 revolver to a 380 revolver.

@03RN I definitely defer to your military background and experience. I’m trying to wrap my mind around how differences in ballistic energy translate into real world trade offs.

For example if slower and heavier is better than faster and lighter, why would any police agency pick 124gr 9mm Gold Dots over 147gr?

My favorite self defense load is 9mm 147+P HST but I just don’t know that heavier and slower is always better.

[03RN]

Yes, but that’s comparing a 38 revolver to a 380 semi-auto.

Not a 38 revolver to a 380 revolver.

@03RN I definitely defer to your military background and experience. I’m trying to wrap my mind around how differences in ballistic energy translate into real world trade offs.

For example if slower and heavier is better than faster and lighter, why would any police agency pick 124gr 9mm Gold Dots over 147gr?

My favorite self defense load is 9mm 147+P HST but I just don’t know that heavier and slower is always better.

Because speed does help when the mass is heavy enough. 124gr @1200fps is a solid load. But I'd rather have a 158gr @ 1200fps.

Don't always defer to others experience. Just log it, and get you own. Go shoot 100 deer and figure stuff out.

It's not just energy. Bullet type plays a part.

A flat nose .22 at the same speed as a 22 rn or HP kills really really well on squirrels and raccoons. Then a softer subsonic hp kills better than harder supersonic .22.

[revchuck38]

The part that confuses me is how the Federal full wadcutter is recommended but isn’t it considered softer lead?

“When faced with too little penetration, as is common with lightweight .38 Sp JHP loads or too much penetration like with the wadcutters, then go with penetration. Agencies around here have used the Winchester 148 gr standard pressure lead target wadcutter (X38SMRP), as well as the Federal (GM38A) version--both work.”

I love shooting them from a 642 but I don’t have confidence in them penetrating thick bones. Isn’t the “too much penetration” argument related to how far it can travel through jello without any obstruction? Am I wrong? I haven’t found anything specially on this topic.

Most factory wadcutter ammo is loaded with swaged HBWCs. Since its design is to provide maximum accuracy by having the skirt expand somewhat when the round is fired, a softer alloy is required. I'm unaware of any company that loads hardcast DEWCs at traditional velocities...doesn't mean there aren't any out there that do, I just haven't heard of them. If it weren't for the possible legal ramifications of using handloads in a self-defense shooting, I'd be glad to load my own.

[03RN]

I'm going to load up 2700 hardcast dewc over 4gr of 231 for my kids but depending on how they work they may be my go to 2" gun load. My only 2" guns are a 10 and my wife's 15 but I'm sure they'll work exceptionally well.

[revchuck38]

I'm going to load up 2700 hardcast dewc over 4gr of 231 for my kids but depending on how they work they may be my go to 2" gun load. My only 2" guns are a 10 and my wife's 15 but I'm sure they'll work exceptionally well.

IIRC, 3.1 grains of 231 is a factory equivalent wadcutter load. Four grains oughta be downright perky.

[rkittine]

For In Home defense loads, I load Hollow Base wad cutters, upside down which will open up but not penetrate walls and possibly harm others in the house. These are loaded in 2" revolvers.

[03RN]

IIRC, 3.1 grains of 231 is a factory equivalent wadcutter load. Four grains oughta be downright perky.

I'm guessing 850fps from a 4" gun