Helping people make better life and career choices, it’s PF, why do we keep responding to each other ..... lots to unpack here.Originally Posted by TGS
Helping people make better life and career choices, it’s PF, why do we keep responding to each other ..... lots to unpack here.
I went to community college and to university. I will say both were helpful to me in LE and in life. I did not go to college just to go to college. I was not interested in college until I got a bit of exposure via the Army through a partnership with Barton County Community College and then I was hooked. Since I could go for free or nearly free, I ended up getting an AS in Emergency Medical Technology and Business Management. I also took computer classes and ended up with yet another AS from a different community college shortly after leaving the Army. Computer Information Systems or something, I don't even recall. Then I enrolled at University of Louisville as a business student and took all the CJ classes as open electives.
Some of the classes were bullshit, but that's not unique to college/university. I'm sure every cop here remembers bullshit in the Academy and at in-service...
@Duelist my recommendation is a business degree and minor in criminal justice if someone really wants to go into LE, although I think the military is also a good option. I'd much rather hire someone who has military service, but having both is a big leg up.
Here's the classes that have helped me in my career or just life in general:
All the business management stuff: Economics, Accounting, Finance, Management theory, etc. Learning how money actually worked, how to be financially literate and read "the books" of a business, etc. were. Honestly, the management/leadership stuff wasn't that good. I learned a lot more from the Army and from my department then I did from school on that front. Business Law/Human Resources law has been helpful as I've moved up the ranks, but luckily I have true experts to punt things to on that front.
All the computer stuff: Holy shit, am I glad I know how to use Excel, how basic networking works, etc. I'm not a cyber-crimes guy but that foundation was incredibly useful and continues to be. I save so much time in my office by automating things in Excel that the last two LTs did with paper and pencil it's ridiculous. I may not actually be networking any longer, but knowing how things work has often been helpful in investigations and explaining search warrant requests to judges, etc. Things like how you get an physical location from an IP address and what the steps are.
On the Criminal Justice side: Procedural Law/Constitutional Law. Other than PT, Law flunks out more recruits than anything in our Academy. I already knew 80% of what they had to teach, only the state specific stuff was new to me. I also knew how to read case law, how to read criminal law, understood prongs and elements, etc. Huge benefit, and to this day I am much more fluent in case law than the majority of my peers. It continues to be useful as a supervisor of detectives and as someone that the brass bounces things off of because of my reputation for knowing that sort of thing.
Psychology didn't really do much for me, but it started me down a self-study path later in life in behavioral economics that remains incredibly useful professionally and personally.
I did not quite finish my BS, although I had the credits. I got hired by the PD in my senior year and left. I was not in a place financially to both attend online courses and to raise a family as a rookie cop and made the decision I'd rather save for my son's future than finish my degree. I'm kicking around finishing it now that I can do so for free, but I'll wait until my son is out of the house before I take on the time sink.
Sorta around sometimes for some of your shitty mod needs.
TheNewbie is probably the SME on this, but I'm inclined to think that a degree in criminal justice is about the same as most liberal arts and social sciences degrees. It might give you a step-up in some aspects of your job, but the B.A. or B.S. is probably more important than what the major is. Of course, this comes from a proud University of Maryland law enforcement major.
As a side note, the county police has long required sixty credits to apply (now waived for military or law enforcement experience. My former agency did not require college (now changed to sixty credits). Apart from the bad old days of the eighties, I didn't see much difference in performance. I did, however, feel that given the standards in county schools, sixty credits ensured an officer could communicate effectively orally and in writing, had developed logical reasoning, and had been exposed to cultural groups other than his or her own. Today? Boy, howdy, I'm not sure a master degree is any guarantee of that.
The only thing I am an SME is on diet soda and Mexican food.
Today a Master Degree probably will have the opposite impact of what you would want. I agree that in theory college should help make up for the disastrous public school system we now have, but I believe it is just more of the same. This is a real crisis and we need a fix sooner rather than later.
As pointed out in previous posts, same staffing story in EMS. In 20 years, I’ve never seen anything like it. Overworked and underpaid has never been as true as it is now. I’m in management now, and we consider it a good day when someone doesn’t quit. We are running hiring academies every month now, but the majority of the applicants have no experience. And most of them don’t want to work the hours we have. I have no idea how they make ends meet working one or two shifts a week. By the same token, I don’t begrudge anyone who only wants per diem status. They can’t be mandated like the full time and part time employees. It’s bad, and it’s like that everywhere right now. COVID certainly had something to do with it as far as the pipeline of new applicants coming out of schools, but there’s something more going on now that the schools are running again. Most applicants that we interview don’t even ask how much they are going to be paid. Maybe it’s just the perfect storm…
Last edited by LJP; 11-20-2021 at 10:11 PM.
https://www.police1.com/police-recru...BqNpT1aVfyl770
How old is too old? Chicago suburb declines to raise maximum age for new cops"I always worry about that age limit and if we are increasing liability for the city," said Chief Frank KaminskiNov 19, 2021
PARK RIDGE, Ill. — A proposal to increase the maximum age at hiring of new police officers in Park Ridge failed to generate support from elected officials or the city's chief of police this month.
Six of Park Ridge's seven aldermen said on Nov. 15 that they are not interested in pursuing an ordinance change that would bump up the cut-off age for new police officers from 35 to 40. The proposal would have applied to both entry-level hires and lateral transfers from other police departments.Peter McNamara, chairman of the board, suggested that increasing the maximum age of new hires may allow for a larger pool of officer candidates at a time when the number of individuals applying to become police officers has fallen.
"Just given the decrease in interest and the increase in people seeking to leave their current employers — predominately from the city of Chicago — we thought it would be a good way to expand our search," McNamara said.
[RELATED: State your case: How young is too young to be a police officer?]
Joan Sandrik, another member of the board, suggested that a "degree of maturity never hurts" and that older applicants may want to join the police department after a career in military service.
"We wanted to widen the field to offer that maturity that might not be there with a 21-, 22- or 23-year-old," she said. "That's something to consider as well."
Park Ridge Police Chief Frank Kaminski indicated that he is not a proponent of raising the new officer age limit and did not bring the proposal to the fire and police board. He said a lack of age restrictions for new police officers in the 1980s resulted in a rise in officer disability claims when he was with the city of Evanston.
"I always worry about that age limit and if we are increasing liability for the city," he said.
"I just think things are OK right now," Kaminski added.
Under state law, all applicants for positions within Illinois police and fire departments "shall be under 35 years old." Home-rule communities like Park Ridge can increase the maximum age restriction for entry-level and lateral hires, attorney Michael Jurusik told the board of fire and police commissioners in September, meeting minutes show.
Jurusik also told the board that a federal ruling on age discrimination allows restrictions on hiring age when it is related to the duties of the job.
40 is not too old....
Facts matter...Feelings Can Lie
Especially for a lateral, or military retiree.
Exactly. I would much rather hire a proven 40yo performer who may already have an retirement income/pension who wants to work out of duty or commitment than an unknown, young person who may washout when things get tough.....
Facts matter...Feelings Can Lie
My thoughts exactly.
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