Phoenix Police Radio Resignation

[hufnagel]

I have read about this before, mostly on blogs and such talking about camper conversations. Many of these people are new to the company, many of them starting after bumming around for a while, and rather than spend $3-5,000mo on a place to put a bed they sleep in the van. One guy said his routine was to go to they gym or the beach or the mountains after work anyway, so all he needed was a place to keep his surfboard and mountain bike and sack out. Show up early at work and there were plenty of amenities for hygiene. Anotger summed it up that the gym membership (with a shower) was a lot cheaper than rent, and he wanted the gym membership anyway.

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If I were young and single, this type of lifestyle doesn't seem all that unappealing, at least for a little while.

[DDTSGM]

I am a high school counselor. In elementary, the jobs many kids mention when you talk about careers are nurse, firefighter, police, and teacher. They get a little bit more broad by the time they are looking at graduation, but I still have kids tell me they want to do law enforcement. I encourage those with that bent to do so, but I don’t encourage Criminal Justice degrees. I could be wrong to have that feeling about it, but I believe they are better served for their whole-life preparation by getting degrees in something else.

Customs and BP don’t require any degree at all, and will hire and train 18yo as agents. So if they get a degree in something like psychology, business, accounting, or computer science, they have a broader range of skills and abilities that might serve them well in aspects of LE, and they are ready if they decide to jump to another agency later on, or if they decide federal LE (or LE in general) isn’t for them, they aren’t stuck with a degree that has limited utility outside that specific job field.

Our local sheriff’s office will also hire 18yo to work the jail, and then allow them to move to road assignments after they are 21. They also do not require any college. Our city PD doesn’t *require* college, but it is encouraged to have at least a 2 year degree, and they don’t hire 18yo.

They are kids and don’t think about retirement seriously, or what might lead to leaving a particular profession: injury, disability, etc. Those are additional reasons I encourage them, if they plan to go to college first, to pursue other degrees than Criminal Justice.

I would welcome input on this from anyone who would like to share. I personally never worked directly in LE, but served alongside supporting federal LE overseas and stateside when I was in the military, my father is retired LE, and many of my friends and neighbors are federal, state, and local LE.

I agree with not pursuing a degree in CJ.

I went to a local JUCO for a couple of years and loaded up on CJ classes to the point that when I attended FHSU and WSU I really had no other option for a major unless I wanted to do another year. As a married student with a full time job and an hour commute, I opted for the CJ. (ETA - my last two years in the Marines I had taken several CJ courses from Chapman College which didn't help)

If a person is taking JUCO courses the things that helped me most getting started were classes around focused around evidence collection and preservation - JUCO courses tend to be more hands on and I got a lot more experience in those classes than I did at the academy. I also took a photography class, which served me well in LE and personally. Don't know if that would be the case today.

[HCM]

I am a high school counselor. In elementary, the jobs many kids mention when you talk about careers are nurse, firefighter, police, and teacher. They get a little bit more broad by the time they are looking at graduation, but I still have kids tell me they want to do law enforcement. I encourage those with that bent to do so, but I don’t encourage Criminal Justice degrees. I could be wrong to have that feeling about it, but I believe they are better served for their whole-life preparation by getting degrees in something else.

Customs and BP don’t require any degree at all, and will hire and train 18yo as agents. So if they get a degree in something like psychology, business, accounting, or computer science, they have a broader range of skills and abilities that might serve them well in aspects of LE, and they are ready if they decide to jump to another agency later on, or if they decide federal LE (or LE in general) isn’t for them, they aren’t stuck with a degree that has limited utility outside that specific job field.

Our local sheriff’s office will also hire 18yo to work the jail, and then allow them to move to road assignments after they are 21. They also do not require any college. Our city PD doesn’t *require* college, but it is encouraged to have at least a 2 year degree, and they don’t hire 18yo.

They are kids and don’t think about retirement seriously, or what might lead to leaving a particular profession: injury, disability, etc. Those are additional reasons I encourage them, if they plan to go to college first, to pursue other degrees than Criminal Justice.

I would welcome input on this from anyone who would like to share. I personally never worked directly in LE, but served alongside supporting federal LE overseas and stateside when I was in the military, my father is retired LE, and many of my friends and neighbors are federal, state, and local LE.

I agree about not majoring in CJ but…

“Customs and BP” may hire at 18 on paper but in reality they are not competitive candidates and cannot perform full duties. IME the only 18 year olds getting hired are “legacy” hires I.e. the sons of daughters of senior CBP leadership. Such hires are rare.

While it is no longer “required” it is strongly encouraged that applicants have a bachelors degree or have “three years of responsible work experience” such as a military enlistment, or working in a position of responsibility such as a manager, or even a volunteer firefighter or EMT/paramedic etc.

There are reasons most LE jobs age requirements start at 21. LE is a “people” job and requires the ability to make independent judgements. Few 18 year olds are ready for that. There are valid reasons for the various layers of control which the military imposes on their 18 year olds.

IME many state / local LE Agencies now require 60 college credits / Associates degree or a military enlistment.

Along those lines, there are many federal LE jobs which on paper require a bachelors degree but in reality to be a competitor candidate for those jobs you need a bachelors plus something else such as LE/military, special skills such as languages, IT, medical etc

[Duelist]

I agree about not majoring in CJ but…

“Customs and BP” may hire at 18 on paper but in reality they are not competitive candidates and cannot perform full duties. IME the only 18 year olds getting hired are “legacy” hires I.e. the sons of daughters of senior CBP leadership. Such hires are rare.

While it is no longer “required” it is strongly encouraged that applicants have a bachelors degree or have “three years of responsible work experience” such as a military enlistment, or working in a position of responsibility such as a manager, or even a volunteer firefighter or EMT/paramedic etc.

There are reasons most LE jobs age requirements start at 21. LE is a “people” job and requires the ability to make independent judgements. Few 18 year olds are ready for that. There are valid reasons for the various layers of control which the military imposes on their 18 year olds.

IME many state / local LE Agencies now require 60 college credits / Associates degree or a military enlistment.

Along those lines, there are many federal LE jobs which on paper require a bachelors degree but in reality to be a competitor candidate for those jobs you need a bachelors plus something else such as LE/military, special skills such as languages, IT, medical etc

That makes sense. Considering where I live, BP legacy hires may well be more of a thing than in other places. The first time I heard about it, I thought the kid was full of it. “No, Mr. Duelist, I’ve been recruited, I’m going to the academy and I’m going to be an agent.”

I was assured by a couple of serving BP agents that it is a thing and that it does actually happen. Weird, but apparently true.

[KevH]

I am a high school counselor. In elementary, the jobs many kids mention when you talk about careers are nurse, firefighter, police, and teacher. They get a little bit more broad by the time they are looking at graduation, but I still have kids tell me they want to do law enforcement. I encourage those with that bent to do so, but I don’t encourage Criminal Justice degrees. I could be wrong to have that feeling about it, but I believe they are better served for their whole-life preparation by getting degrees in something else.

Customs and BP don’t require any degree at all, and will hire and train 18yo as agents. So if they get a degree in something like psychology, business, accounting, or computer science, they have a broader range of skills and abilities that might serve them well in aspects of LE, and they are ready if they decide to jump to another agency later on, or if they decide federal LE (or LE in general) isn’t for them, they aren’t stuck with a degree that has limited utility outside that specific job field.

Our local sheriff’s office will also hire 18yo to work the jail, and then allow them to move to road assignments after they are 21. They also do not require any college. Our city PD doesn’t *require* college, but it is encouraged to have at least a 2 year degree, and they don’t hire 18yo.

They are kids and don’t think about retirement seriously, or what might lead to leaving a particular profession: injury, disability, etc. Those are additional reasons I encourage them, if they plan to go to college first, to pursue other degrees than Criminal Justice.

I would welcome input on this from anyone who would like to share. I personally never worked directly in LE, but served alongside supporting federal LE overseas and stateside when I was in the military, my father is retired LE, and many of my friends and neighbors are federal, state, and local LE.

There is no reason to get a CJ degree. It's completely worthless. Besides, these days all CJ programs are "woke" social justice nonsense and have absolutely nothing to do with actual policing. The vast majority of instructors at the university level have absolutely no experience (or interest) in law enforcement.

I have a BS in CJ and an MBA. If I were to do it all over again I would go back and tell my younger self to go into the trades and become an electrician.

[TGS]

I am a high school counselor. In elementary, the jobs many kids mention when you talk about careers are nurse, firefighter, police, and teacher. They get a little bit more broad by the time they are looking at graduation, but I still have kids tell me they want to do law enforcement. I encourage those with that bent to do so, but I don’t encourage Criminal Justice degrees. I could be wrong to have that feeling about it, but I believe they are better served for their whole-life preparation by getting degrees in something else.

Customs and BP don’t require any degree at all, and will hire and train 18yo as agents. So if they get a degree in something like psychology, business, accounting, or computer science, they have a broader range of skills and abilities that might serve them well in aspects of LE, and they are ready if they decide to jump to another agency later on, or if they decide federal LE (or LE in general) isn’t for them, they aren’t stuck with a degree that has limited utility outside that specific job field.

Our local sheriff’s office will also hire 18yo to work the jail, and then allow them to move to road assignments after they are 21. They also do not require any college. Our city PD doesn’t *require* college, but it is encouraged to have at least a 2 year degree, and they don’t hire 18yo.

They are kids and don’t think about retirement seriously, or what might lead to leaving a particular profession: injury, disability, etc. Those are additional reasons I encourage them, if they plan to go to college first, to pursue other degrees than Criminal Justice.

I would welcome input on this from anyone who would like to share. I personally never worked directly in LE, but served alongside supporting federal LE overseas and stateside when I was in the military, my father is retired LE, and many of my friends and neighbors are federal, state, and local LE.

Getting a CJ degree is one of the more useless things someone can do for themselves if they want a career in law enforcement. In the 90s and early 2000s, the State Police recruiters would tell us they actively discouraged candidates with CJ degrees and artificially adjusted their ranking in the process compared to those with degrees in most other subjects. Ex: All else being equal, a guy with a STEM degree and a 2.7 GPA would get ranked higher than a CJ guy with anything below a 4.0 GPA. I remember one Trooper saying, "Get virtually anything except CJ, it has a very negative connotation from the recruiter's perspective"........that being laziness, lack of critical thinking, etc.

I didn't understand it until I went to college and saw that people who shouldn't otherwise have college degrees would end up in the CJ program just so they could get the piece of paper after 4 years. Our CJ program at my college actually graduated more students than a given class year would start with in the CJ program. My history class started at around 80 and graduated half that on time.....the majority of the ones who left the program went to CJ.

To that end, while my current job doesn't care what degree you have, there are precious few CJ degrees who get hired when compared to the massive number of people with CJ degrees....and I think that's more to do with the fact that people who get CJ degrees tend to be underperformers to begin with.

You're providing good counsel to your students. Even if your students don't want to do accounting, business, nursing, STEM, etc...anything is better than CJ, as they'll at least be challenged with most other programs. Poli Sci, history, international relations, etc are all better for that sole reason, even if those degrees are equally worthless at getting you a job.

[HCM]

There is no reason to get a CJ degree. It's completely worthless. Besides, these days all CJ programs are "woke" social justice nonsense and have absolutely nothing to do with actual policing. The vast majority of instructors at the university level have absolutely no experience (or interest) in law enforcement.

I have a BS in CJ and an MBA. If I were to do it all over again I would go back and tell my younger self to go into the trades and become an electrician.

So did my associates in CJ and BA in History. My father taught part time in health careers at the local community college so I attended for 1/2 price to knock out core classes. The majority of the CJ staff there were all active or retired LE. Did mostly nights while working full time as had most of the instructors.

Even back then most CJ staff at the university level had no real CJ experience.

It’s funny because my son did an AA (not CJ) and to his mother’s to his mother’s horror …. is now an electrician.

[Coyotesfan97]

So did my associates in CJ and BA in History. My father taught part time in health careers at the local community college so I attended for 1/2 price to knock out core classes. The majority of the CJ staff there were all active or retired LE. Did mostly nights while working full time as had most of the instructors.

Even back then most CJ staff at the university level had no real CJ experience.

It’s funny because my son did an AA (not CJ) and to his mother’s to his mother’s horror …. is now an electrician.

I got a CJ degree in the mid 80s. I mean I got a Justice Studies degree because they changed the name before I graduated. About a third to half of my professors were retired LE. The others were the ones who got the named changed. I got it because I thought it’d help get me hired.

I had enough history credits when I graduated I probably could’ve have gotten a double degree in a couple semesters but I wanted to get to work. My University didn’t offer minors otherwise I’d have one in history. I have a Masters in Educational Leadership.

I got hired in the late 80s. I spent 25 years on the Tactical Unit in SWAT and K9. You don’t get there by underachieving. <shrug>

On the other hand I’ve told a lot of people to get a different degree in case CJ doesn’t work out.

[blues]

I got a CJ degree in the mid 80s. I mean I got a Justice Studies degree because they changed the name before I graduated. About a third to half of my professors were retired LE. The others were the ones who got the named changed. I got it because I thought it’d help get me hired.

I had enough history credits when I graduated I probably could’ve have gotten a double degree in a couple semesters but I wanted to get to work. My University didn’t offer minors otherwise I’d have one in history. I have a Masters in Educational Leadership.

I got hired in the late 80s. I spent 25 years on the Tactical Unit in SWAT and K9. You don’t get there by underachieving. <shrug>

On the other hand I’ve told a lot of people to get a different degree in case CJ doesn’t work out.

Amen, brother.

[UNM1136]

I got a CJ degree in the mid 80s. I mean I got a Justice Studies degree because they changed the name before I graduated. About a third to half of my professors were retired LE. The others were the ones who got the named changed. I got it because I thought it’d help get me hired.

I had enough history credits when I graduated I probably could’ve have gotten a double degree in a couple semesters but I wanted to get to work. My University didn’t offer minors otherwise I’d have one in history. I have a Masters in Educational Leadership.

I got hired in the late 80s. I spent 25 years on the Tactical Unit in SWAT and K9. You don’t get there by underachieving. <shrug>

On the other hand I’ve told a lot of people to get a different degree in case CJ doesn’t work out.

When I was in college in the early 90s we had two professors out of 10 that were former LE. My favorite one retired in the early 60s from Detroit. We had a State sanctioned crime lab on campus where you could intern, and a crime lab in one one of the classrooms for the CJ321 class, Forensics. A water tank for toolmarks (firearms) and everything. I proudly list "Bachelor of Criminal Justice" on my resumé because the College of Arts and Sciences could not decide if CJ was an art or a science. They have taken a decision now...

I double minored in Spanish and Psychology. Almost triple minored in History (six credits shy) and nearly double majored in Psych (also six credits shy, didn't want to design and run experiments). And credits shy of an Associates in Emergency Medicine. Now I have an Associate's Degree in Culinary Arts, to go with my (early) midlife crisis. Certificates in Hotel and Food Service Management, and Workforce Training. Had I to do it over again I would have done something like Athletic Training. I am currently working on a Masters in Organizational Learning, but I may bail because of the"Wokeness" of the degree. Wouldn't be doing it if it required a thesis. I am, afterall, a cop, and therefore lazy.

I tell rookies now to get degrees that will mean earning a living if they get fired, injured, burned out, or convicted. Anything, anything at all will do. Not Criminal Justice, Poly Sci, or Sociology. When I was in college the focus was getting to work. Now the focus seems to be surving work.

Also, after a year of (Covid based) bureaucratic shenanigans, I am once again a State certified Firearms Instuctor. Finally. I have bitched to some of you about the headaches. I WON!

pat