Phoenix Police Radio Resignation

[TheNewbie]

I am a high school counselor. In elementary, the jobs many kids mention when you talk about careers are nurse, firefighter, police, and teacher. They get a little bit more broad by the time they are looking at graduation, but I still have kids tell me they want to do law enforcement. I encourage those with that bent to do so, but I don’t encourage Criminal Justice degrees. I could be wrong to have that feeling about it, but I believe they are better served for their whole-life preparation by getting degrees in something else.

Customs and BP don’t require any degree at all, and will hire and train 18yo as agents. So if they get a degree in something like psychology, business, accounting, or computer science, they have a broader range of skills and abilities that might serve them well in aspects of LE, and they are ready if they decide to jump to another agency later on, or if they decide federal LE (or LE in general) isn’t for them, they aren’t stuck with a degree that has limited utility outside that specific job field.

Our local sheriff’s office will also hire 18yo to work the jail, and then allow them to move to road assignments after they are 21. They also do not require any college. Our city PD doesn’t *require* college, but it is encouraged to have at least a 2 year degree, and they don’t hire 18yo.

They are kids and don’t think about retirement seriously, or what might lead to leaving a particular profession: injury, disability, etc. Those are additional reasons I encourage them, if they plan to go to college first, to pursue other degrees than Criminal Justice.

I would welcome input on this from anyone who would like to share. I personally never worked directly in LE, but served alongside supporting federal LE overseas and stateside when I was in the military, my father is retired LE, and many of my friends and neighbors are federal, state, and local LE.

Unless you absolutely must obtain a degree, I would not pursue it. Take the time that would be put into working towards a degree, and learn how to write well, speak well, a sellable skill, EMT training, and learn a couple of languages. You will be smarter, wiser, and a better employee. Getting my bachelor degree was probably the biggest waste of time in my life.


As I have stated before, my wife went to medical school without first going to college (Mexico). A bachelor degree is not necessary for learning, and is often counter productive.


Maybe LE should be treated more as a trade school, vs a 4 month academy.

[Coyotesfan97]

Unless you absolutely must obtain a degree, I would not pursue it. Take the time that would be put into working towards a degree, and learn how to write well, speak well, a sellable skill, EMT training, and learn a couple of languages. You will be smarter, wiser, and a better employee. Getting my bachelor degree was probably the biggest waste of time in my life.


As I have stated before, my wife went to medical school without first going to college (Mexico). A bachelor degree is not necessary for learning, and is often counter productive.


Maybe LE should be treated more as a trade school, vs a 4 month academy.

My agency started running our own academy. It’s 20 weeks long followed by 16 weeks of Field Training. The last cost I heard was over $50,000 per new Officer from going through hiring to getting him or her on solo patrol. It’s probably more now. I’d have no problem adding time to it but the cost increases. How much time to you add and how much are cities/taxpayers willing to pay?

I’ll tell you outright training is one of the first items cut when cities cut Police Department funding. So there is new Officers training then AZPOST requires Advanced/Proficiency training for veteran Officers. I think there should be a lot more advanced training required but you have to hire more Officers to cover for the training.

[TheNewbie]

My agency started running our own academy. It’s 20 weeks long followed by 16 weeks of Field Training. The last cost I heard was over $50,000 per new Officer from going through hiring to getting him or her on solo patrol. It’s probably more now. I’d have no problem adding time to it but the cost increases. How much time to you add and how much are cities/taxpayers willing to pay?

I’ll tell you outright training is one of the first items cut when cities cut Police Department funding. So there is new Officers training then AZPOST requires Advanced/Proficiency training for veteran Officers. I think there should be a lot more advanced training required but you have to hire more Officers to cover for the training.

I understand the time issue.


If it went the trade school route, the whole concept would have to be changed. I am not sure if it's possible, or if it's even a better way of doing it. Just a thought that cops smarter than me would be better at deciding.

[OlongJohnson]

Getting my bachelor degree was probably the biggest waste of time in my life.

What was your major?

I'm grateful for everything I learned in undergrad. My only regret is that I didn't learn more. At least what I learned set me up to learn more, faster, as I went out into real life. I'm often surprised and occasionally dismayed by what people in my field with theoretically similar backgrounds don't know about the universe.

I'm not a cop, but there are some cops I listen to who seem to be darned glad they did their undergrad and in some cases graduate work.

[TheNewbie]

What was your major?

I'm grateful for everything I learned in undergrad. My only regret is that I didn't learn more. At least what I learned set me up to learn more, faster, as I went out into real life. I'm often surprised and occasionally dismayed by what people in my field with theoretically similar backgrounds don't know about the universe.

I'm not a cop, but there are some cops I listen to who seem to be darned glad they did their undergrad and in some cases graduate work.

Basically a general studies degree. I love to learn, but college didn’t not offer learning to me. The one exception of any significance would be Spanish at a junior college. It’s my fault for continuing to pursue college when I knew it wasn’t for me, and I should have know that it was distracting me from learning.


I’m not bitter, that’s on me, but I do hate to see what college is doing to our society. What I see taught at college is why I am sad to see so many people attending. Clarity of thought and wisdom are not the mainstream values of college. It’s a tragedy because I love the idea of college and the sanctity of the institution has been damaged.

Anyway, this is getting way too off topic. It’s my fault for starting the drift.

[Duelist]

Unless you absolutely must obtain a degree, I would not pursue it. Take the time that would be put into working towards a degree, and learn how to write well, speak well, a sellable skill, EMT training, and learn a couple of languages. You will be smarter, wiser, and a better employee. Getting my bachelor degree was probably the biggest waste of time in my life.


As I have stated before, my wife went to medical school without first going to college (Mexico). A bachelor degree is not necessary for learning, and is often counter productive.


Maybe LE should be treated more as a trade school, vs a 4 month academy.

What was your major?

I'm grateful for everything I learned in undergrad. My only regret is that I didn't learn more. At least what I learned set me up to learn more, faster, as I went out into real life. I'm often surprised and occasionally dismayed by what people in my field with theoretically similar backgrounds don't know about the universe.

I'm not a cop, but there are some cops I listen to who seem to be darned glad they did their undergrad and in some cases graduate work.

Basically a general studies degree. I love to learn, but college didn’t not offer learning to me. The one exception of any significance would be Spanish at a junior college. It’s my fault for continuing to pursue college when I knew it wasn’t for me, and I should have know that it was distracting me from learning.


I’m not bitter, that’s on me, but I do hate to see what college is doing to our society. What I see taught at college is why I am sad to see so many people attending. Clarity of thought and wisdom are not the mainstream values of college. It’s a tragedy because I love the idea of college and the sanctity of the institution has been damaged.

Anyway, this is getting way too off topic. It’s my fault for starting the drift.

General studies degrees are fine, but not what I would choose for any of my students.

One of the things I tell them is that college is the most expensive thing they can ever buy that they can’t return: they invest years of their lives and, if they attend a typical state university, about $100k. If they don’t like it at the end, the school isn’t going to return their money. If they get just some degree that doesn’t teach them how to write well, communicate verbally, and give a marketable skill, then why are they doing it?

Parents really want kids to go to college. Education is supposed to be the key to financial stability. And it certainly can be, but choices in major and activities during school affect that hugely. If a student spends most of their time partying and skipping class, they may still graduate, but what are they actually learning?

I have four college degrees, and don’t feel that any were a waste. OMMV.

[KevH]

Well, my department pays you 10% extra for having a baccalaureate at officer level and 5% extra for having a masters at lieutenant and above. So there is that...

I don't consider my college degrees a waste at all; however, I'll stand by that in our current environment having a Criminal Justice/Admin of Justice/Justice Studies degree is one step above useless and has no correlation with policing and the old "Police Sciences" type of degrees of old. At this point, those degrees are closer to political brain washing than to education.

@Duelist If I were a guidance counselor and a young person wanted to enter this career field, I would probably point them towards a business degree depending on their aptitude. My MBA has been way more useful to me than my CJ degree ever was. Sure, for your first few years the only thing real thing that will be a benefit will be command of the English language for report writing, but if you advance at all, you are going to wind up dealing with budgets, whether managing a small unit or being stuck in my current role of training manager. The statistics portion and management psychology element has also come in handy.

More important though, I would tell them to get a job and gain some life experience and learn how to talk and interact with people and handle conflict. This could be working retail or being a server at Applebees in high school or while going to college. Most (not all, but most) of our recent newbs seem to struggle with social interaction. I realize it's a generational thing across all careers, but in a field where your mouth can get you in or out of trouble, it's a real problem.

My current position is on our hiring board and manages our academy recruits. Even over education and military experience, the number one thing we look for is past work experience. If you held a steady job as a restaurant server or in some other field where you have to actually talk to customers face-to-face and handle conflict it weighs heavily in the candidate's favor.

[TheNewbie]

General studies degrees are fine, but not what I would choose for any of my students.

One of the things I tell them is that college is the most expensive thing they can ever buy that they can’t return: they invest years of their lives and, if they attend a typical state university, about $100k. If they don’t like it at the end, the school isn’t going to return their money. If they get just some degree that doesn’t teach them how to write well, communicate verbally, and give a marketable skill, then why are they doing it?

Parents really want kids to go to college. Education is supposed to be the key to financial stability. And it certainly can be, but choices in major and activities during school affect that hugely. If a student spends most of their time partying and skipping class, they may still graduate, but what are they actually learning?

I have four college degrees, and don’t feel that any were a waste. OMMV.

It would be ok if it taught you something. lol

College is not a waste for everyone, but it is dangerous for everyone. They are places that make people less wise not more wise.

There are exceptions, like Hillsdale, and in the past my attacks were not always as true. I know two block women who were decent and good people. Both would have been more on the conservative side values wise. After college they both had bought into the disgusting concept of “the black experience” and were more left. If you have a degree I assume you’re not a wise person until proven otherwise.


Let’s be honest, who is more likely to say men give birth, a person with a degree or a person without one?


I do not want my doctors, cops, lawyers, etc going to college. All those professions need specific training, often lengthy training, but they don’t need college. My wife didn’t have to go to college to a doctor, she went straight to medical school from high school. Of course her high school was probably of higher quality than most American schools. We do most things better in the USA than the rest of the world, but having to do things like go to college before medical school, law school, to be an accountant, etc is not one of them.


It’s sad because I love learning, and I love debating with liberal professors. However, colleges now teach too much nonsense and too much anti-wisdom to be called wisdom or places of learning. I would love to see that change because I actually hold the idea of the position of professor in a certain high regard.

[OlongJohnson]

More important though, I would tell them to get a job and gain some life experience and learn how to talk and interact with people and handle conflict. This could be working retail or being a server at Applebees in high school or while going to college. Most (not all, but most) of our recent newbs seem to struggle with social interaction. I realize it's a generational thing across all careers, but in a field where your mouth can get you in or out of trouble, it's a real problem.

I was pretty outgoing and social for an engineer, but inserting a year of high-end retail in the same field I'm an engineer in after several years of working was transformational in all kinds of positive ways.

[TheNewbie]

Let me clear, I am as pro education and life experience as they come. If you do not go to college, then you need to be applying yourself to gaining skills, life experience and knowledge.


Education and experience are invaluable life commodities.