I love the LCP custom
The good sights and better trigger is a step up from the usual LCP but I got it for a similar price.
I have been eyeing a Beretta Bobcat .22lr from a local range and contemplating whether to get that or the LCP .22 that's in the case next to it.
I suppose I should throw up the bat signal for Claude Werner or Les Pepperoni.
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Before I was in LE my deep concealment gun (when getting made could mean losing your CCL), was a Beretta Tomcat in 32ACP. It was always reliable and accurate enough for what it was. The newest version has better sights I think. Haven’t carried it in years so I don’t even know what the latest and greatest 32 ammo is. I kept mine full of Gold Dots.
My choice of miniaturized pistol is the Seecamp LWS-32. Though small, its dimensions fit me where it is important, and it points well enough; windage is good, and elevation is, well, close enough for pointy-stick distance. I have seen anecdotes of parts breakage, but have also seen anecdotes of some quite high-round counts, with no problems. They certainly seem to feed reliably, at least when using the recommended loads. (I have not tried anything but the recommended loads.) I have accumulated several of these, and my wife has her own LWS-32.
I helped my wife break-in her Kel-Tec .32. We both hated shooting it. Very uncomfortable. We found it to be reliable, if the magazines are kept down-loaded by one, from full capacity. It has sat, unused, since we finished the original vetting, years ago. I think that I would rather carry a stick.
Edited to add: I think that I might rather use one of those mini-revolvers, than a Kel-Tec .32. Seriously. I would probably fire it in “slip gun” fashion.
Retar’d LE. Kinesthetic dufus.
Don’t tread on volcanos!
MY brother bought a KelTec P32 decades ago. It is his go-to pocket gun, and since he works in an office he is part owner of or on job sites he has nominal control of daily, with occasional suit days for proposals and bids and so forth, a gun he can slide into his jeans or suit pants is ideal.
I always hated shooting it, though. I have run a Jframe as my primary pocket gun for years, but ended up buying a P32 for $100 on a lark. It runs. It’s not exactly fun to shoot, but it doesn’t hurt to do so, so I don’t hate it and it goes places other guns won’t. Very discreet in business attire. Not interested in shooting .380 through a gun that size.
The G42 only weighs 13 ounces or so and fits in most of my pockets when the 642 is too bulky, so since I got one of those, the P32 has gotten very little carry. Not worth selling, but worth keeping the ugly little thing around for extreme low profile carry.
If anyone wants to part with an LCP Custom, hit me up.
Why Ruger stopped making the BEST iteration of the gen1 LCP is a mystery.
Until I find one of those, the G42 or S&W 351c are my favorite pocket rockets for those times I can’t carry anything more capable.
P3at & Seecamp 32 haven’t left the safe in years.
Shot an LCP Max recently, other than it hitting 6-8” low at 15 yards, I liked it. Even when driving the dot, I’d have appreciated a taller rear sight to correct the elevation.
I was, at one point, the inveterate mousegun guy. I’ve had a bunch of them. Still sort of wish I had a TPH.
The Seecamp was astonishingly reliable (keeping in mind that the last round stovepipe is a designed feature, not a bug), but the no-sight thing ultimately wore thin. In hindsight, I should have kept it though. I’m intrigued by some of the NAA custom shop offerings; NAA .32 acp guardians with real sights and stippling, etc. Not cheap, but I bet they’re cool if they run.
The Kahr you are looking at has a good trigger, and good sights. It recoils more than one would expect out of a .380 though. The Sig P238 was a neat little gun, provided that one is ok with the SA design. I shot a 2-day intermediate handgun class with my p-238 back in the day, and I did surprisingly well—certainly holding my own against the other students with that thing. The magazines were sort of expensive.
I’ve not had good luck with the Beretta 21. Honestly, the Taurus PT-22 was more reliable, right up to the point that it went full Taurus, and started doing things like shedding the slide mid-string, or disengaging the safety if you pull the trigger… (Yay! Time saver! Bonus!).
I am intrigued by the threaded barrel Tomcat. My dad has an original recipe .32 Tomcat, and it runs fine. Possibly an option.
I dunno. I suspect that the comments about that LCP custom being the apex of obtainable mouse gun design are probably spot-on. If I find one of those things clean, used, I’m on it.
If I come into FU discretionary cash, I’ll buy a pile of German TPHs, and keep the best two out of the pile. Despite the war-hammer DA trigger on the first shot.
”But in the end all of these ideas just manufacture new criminals when the problem isn't a lack of criminals.” -JRB
It has been my experience that almost everyone I know who is truly serious about being armed 16/7/365 owns at least one mousegun. Sometimes, discretion must take priority.
My first was a cheap DAO .25 auto which I sold after my first range trip. Watching .25 FMJ penetrate 3/16 inch of wood on my target frame and then drop to the ground undamaged was not confidence inspiring.
After hearing very mixed reviews of the reliability of various .22 and .25 semiautos, and seeing how large they were compared to what they offered, I noticed that a few people I respected carried NAA .22lr mini revolvers in their pockets. At the time, a Seecamp required either a 3 year wait or paying about $1,000 if one could be found for sale. I bought a 1 1/8" .22lr, and used it for backup and high discretion carry. The NAA leather pocket holster worked well. The best grips for size and control have been the "boot" grips. They are only slightly larger than the birdshead grips, but make a big difference in recoil control and accuracy.
As soon as the Kel-Tec P-32 became available, I acquired one. At first, I had to keep it loaded with 7 rounds only, because if I loaded 7+1, it would jam on the first shot. The rim of the top round was stuck in the groove of the round below. Later, I learned that switching to Wolff 11 lb. recoil springs completely solved this problem. I also use their =10% extra power magazine springs. My gun shot several inches to the right at 20-30 feet. David Clay, who is unfortunately no longer in business, installed his "tritium channel sight" while also cutting metal from the left side of the hole in the muzzle supporting the barrel, and welding metal to the right side of that same hole. He was able to shift the windage so that it was no longer off. The gun currently wears a Crimson Trace LaserGuard.
For several years, a North American Arms .380 was my pocket gun of choice. Mine has mini Novak tritium sights from the NAA Custom Shop, as well as a Teddy Jacobson trigger job. The gun is very reliable as long as I use Federal or Winchester primers. This gun also currently has Crimson Trace LaserGrips. All of these changes made the gun significantly easier to shoot than it was out of the box. Unfortunately, it is still not as easy to shoot quickly and accurately as My P3AT.
My current mousegun choice is a Kel-Tec P3AT. Like my other Kel-Tec, this one runs best with recoil springs whcih are 2 lb. heavier than factory standard. With 13 lb. springs, I have no worries about jams. The gun does give me some light strikes unless I use Federal or Winchester primers. It currently has a Crimson Trace LaserGuard. The factory sights are useless except under perfect range conditions, but the LaserGuard is a total game changer in low light. The vast majority of the time when I thought I might need a gun, it was after dark.
When I first shot the P3AT, it rotated in my hand badly, slowing my second shot speed. I tried +1 magazine extensions, but found them to be noisy. The +0 extensions are not only quieter, but provide a better grip.
A few pointers about the Kel-Tec mouseguns:
If it came with a plastic guide rod, stick with the plastic. The flexing of the guide rod helps prevent binding the slide.
Do not do the "fluff and buff" recommended on some websites. Not only will it take the gun out of warranty, but it will likely take an in-spec gun out of spec.
Heavier recoil springs, and to a lesser extent magazine springs, are simple and effective first steps to cure any reliability issues.
In .32 ACP, careful loading of the magazines will prevent rimlock. I am convinced that most rimlock occurs during loading of the magazines.
These guns are absolute pocket lint magnets. Clean the lint out frequently.
I have a S&W Bodyguard .380. When I first got it, it had light strike issues with some ammo. I sent it back to Smith, they kept it for a month, replaced the firing pin and called it good. It was actually worse when I got back on the range with it. But I liked the design, so I sent it to Galloway Precision and had them install their improved lifter and a stronger hammer spring. Now the gun will smash any primer it comes up against. Completely reliable. I added XS Big Dot tritium sights and a Hogue Handall grip.
I like it for deep carry and as a BUG. It is safe, reliable, very concealable and reasonably accurate in my hands. I saw a video of Jerry Miculek hitting steel at 200 yards with one, on the first try, so it is more accurate than I am. I am a long time revolver guy, so the DA trigger does not faze me.
Remember, the OP’s rationalization for buying a new gun is “wrong grip angle”, so many of these suggestions are not really solutions. He should have at least said “high bore axis” or something. That would have opened the field a bit.
Maybe a grip sleeve would add a hump to the bottom on the LCP back strap, or one could be trimmed near the web of the hand to get the same effect. It doesn’t change the angle of the front strap, though.
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Did someone say pocket guns?
Here in board short and flip-flop land, aka Florida, pocket guns are normal; They're a compromise, of course, but fill a niche...
Some other options these days are with LCR/jFrame clip-able holsters (Like DarkStar) and Phlster's enigma: both have worked for me.
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But keeping on point:
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22 Short is a terrible pocket gun. They're great if you have a Beretta mouse gun addiction, tho.
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The 25 jetfire's are cool, but I don't trust the safety and they're SAO. Having to contemplate cocking the hammer is a non-starter.
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The Bobcats are good in my experience. The newer one have way more reliable ignition. If you buy a stainless one: finding white stainless sights against white stainless rear sights is tough - a sharpie helps.
They do shoot surprisingly accurately, tho, and I've had good luck with Stingers and Velocitors. Clean them after every couple of magazines. Oil and grease are your friend: these guns hate being run dry.
Semi-daily checks/cleaning are important.
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My stupid KelTec P32 is a daily companion. Mine runs exceedingly well. I feed it Sellier and Bellot 32 72 gr FMJ: the OAL of the round prevents rimlock.
I liked the gun so much, I had real sight put on by Innovative Arms.
I carry it in a Galco Horsehide pocket holster - it has "hooks" at the leading and trailing edge to catch a pocket...
I usually wedge my phone between the holster and outside of the pocket to help break up the shape.
(The holster works great on the rare event that I need to wear a jacket in FL too.)
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I dislike pocket guns with no sights (Seecamp, CZ Duo): The idea that you're going to get a a pocket gun into action during a grapple is, well, unrealistic.
I view them more as for surreptitious use: drawing or access before things are going down, preparing for an imminent threat, etc.
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(Volume up...)
I don't practice with my P32 as much as I once did, because inflation and supply-chain issue have made ammunition stupid expensive, but some dry fire goes a long way...
Cleaning/checking everyday is a necessity, even with a reliable revolver like the LCR: Lint, grit, sand, sweat, etc all conspire against you.
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