Originally Posted by Leroy Suggs
Put an RMR on one and they become a little monster!
Put an RMR on one and they become a little monster!
I want to thank the folks who responded thoughtfully to my inquiry about shooting evaluations. I also had a brief discussion with a USPSA competitor I respect who commented to the effect that if you’re last at a competition you might want to work on skill improvements-and I certainly see his point.
Odds are though-and I’m musing about “concealed carriers”, whether LE or licensed citizen-that the vast majority of people “packing” would not do very well on some of the evals mentioned(see Karl Rehn, Werner, Dobbs, etc.). I do appreciate again the responses. It’s why I stick around the forum.
I use the Roundup, Wizard and the “Test” as a several times a month check on where I’m at. I think I’ll incorporate the Bakersfield qual; I also like the 25 yard shooting mentioned. A local club has a plate rack on a pistol range, and I think I’ll try 6 “cold” shots, one at a time in 3 seconds with whatever I’m carrying next time I’m there.
Stay safe and keep shooting!
On CCW proficiency, I see it as follows:
1) know how to manipulate your gun, because if you can't get it loaded and into action, you have lost.
2) be able to hit what you are trying to hit.
3) know how to do 1 and 2 above at a relevant speed.
Back to the G19 premise, with an optic I think weight may be more important than slide length. Between guide rods, grip plugs and lights, we have easy ways to increase weight.
Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.
For me it is not an absolute question of size, but a multi variable problem of trigger address. For example, I can shoot the 26 and 17 well, but not the 19. I can shoot a P229 well, even though it’s a lot more piggy than the P30, which I shoot poorly. I am unable to be predictive about what guns I will shoot well— I have to evaluate.
Ignore Alien Orders
I’m going to ask a clarifying question.
Do you consider the predictive versus reactive to also apply to the FIRST shot and not just subsequent follow up shots?
I do. Like off a draw or off a transition. I’m not just reacting to where the dot is, I’m calculating the press before it gets there by the rate of approach.
That’s where I see the value of it for defensive shooting.
Predictive so that when you’ve decided bullets need to go someplace, they go there without delay.
That would also apply to movement and moving targets.
@JCN, I agree. Good points.
“There is no growth in the comfort zone.”--Jocko Willink
"You can never have too many knives." --Joe Ambercrombie
There's some misunderstanding and misused terminology in this thread.
Predictive vs reactivate shooting applies to one skill - recoil management. There are a lot of factors that could contribute to effective recoil control. Personal skills (obviously top guys can shoot more difficult targets predictably). Also gear. It is easier to shoot predictively heavier, bigger guns. Or open guns with compensators, or PCC... that is why even C-class open shooters double taps anything up to 10yrds. Major ammo is also more difficult to shoot predictively... Back to the original topic, it is very possible to shoot a hoser stage predictively (something like "Can you count" classifier) with G19 because it's mostly about gun handling and relaxation. It's more more difficult to shoot, say, Baseball Standards with a smaller guns. Not impossible of course.
I think being able to blend both is really important for high level competitive shooting, but defensive shooting should be 100% reactive. The only way to .1x spits is definitely through predetermining that you're going to fire the next shot, but being able to make up a Mike in .3 and then switch back to predictive shooting on the next target is more useful than super fast splits.
As you point out, the mechanics that you need to be very good at predictive shooting are also useful for reactive shooting. Just like many people might see having a super refined index as a "gamer" skill, it's something that carries over very well to doing other more realistic things with a pistol.
Last edited by joshs; 11-11-2021 at 01:36 PM.
I don't think that's correct.
I'm using @Clusterfrack definition and explanation as below.
@cheby
In the definition above, he's talking about 0.1x splits.
I see my sights and trigger based off vision down to 0.12 splits. It's not a "double tap" it's two separate sight pictures. By the above definition even though I'm using my vision, I can do that because of predictable mechanics and gun handling. Even if something got in my vision at the point of triggering, I'd still know when to trigger because I calculated the rate of dot deceleration and can PREDICT where the nadir of the "bounce" will be and basically ambush that.
That same concept also applies to things that aren't recoil management related. Which is why I asked for clarification about draws and transitions.
I do the same thing with draws and transitions that I do with recoil management.
I calculate the rate of deceleration of the dot as it gets close to target to PREDICT where the dot will be in the next few hundreths and trigger based off that.
It's not that I get to the target and then decide, "hey, I'm on target... I should trigger now."
@Clusterfrack
As a primarily dot shooter, I get the best visual feedback with a press out draw. I pick up the dot early so I can start my calculations earlier and trigger AS I get on target and not after I get on target. It's still vision based with this kind of prediction. But takes reproducible mechanics so the prediction is easier.
It's basically the difference of trying to catch a baseball when you can track it visually in flight versus trying to catch it when you lose it in the sun... and then it appears in your vision almost at impact.
If you expand the definition to predictive with regard to draws and transitions, then I'll take exception saying that it should be 100% reactive.
I'm also going to say that with early good shot calling based on vision, you can decide to make up or abort the 3rd shot.
Because the decision gets made at the previous trigger press so the tenth of decision making is simultaneous with the trigger reset.
In a defense shooting, I'll also question whether you should shoot a single shot... wait... reassess... shoot again if necessary?
Versus shoot until the threat stops threatening. So you could get 0.1x splits until the "stop" mental command is given because the threat is neutralized.
But all shots would be shot to vision and not just burst fired at a set cadence.
Reply With Quote