Big v. Little: The Effect of Pistol Size on Shooting Performance

[joshs]

Like a lot of people, increased work from home last year made me a bit lazier when it came to carrying a "real" pistol. I started off with a G48, but, trying to live my best dot life, I picked up a P365 XL and 43X MOS. Both are pretty awesome little pistols (I even just bought a $315 grip module because of some good old fashioned p-f enabling). They're better shooters than I ever thought a 9mm of this size could be, but the shooting performance difference between this size of pistol and a G19 is still quite substantial.

After shooting these little pistols almost exclusively, I recently started shooting USPSA again with a G19/H407 in Carry Optics. The performance difference is stark. I actually thought my gun was broken on my first shot/first stage this weekend because of how slow I perceived the slide moving in comparison the the P365XL or 43x.

But, oddly I notice almost no performance increase by shooting a pistol larger than a G19. For example, my average classifier performance is about 80-100% with the 19, and effectively the same when shooting bigger pistols. I'd be lucky to break 75% on a classifier with one of the smaller pistols, and the disaster factor is way higher.

Shooting with a dot obviously impacts this since sight radius doesn't matter.

Moving the other direction, down to a P365 or G43, I again notice a huge difference compared to the 43x or XL. So much so that I really have no interest in those pistols.

Practically speaking, I guess this means I should really be carrying the 19 since I have no real need for the smaller guns. (My work is pretty gun friendly ). I also find claims that a G48/43x with the Shield Arms mags makes a G19 obsolete to be very wrong. If you only value capacity and size, maybe, but there are very real tradeoffs in shooting performance.

Maybe I just suck at shooting skinny-gripped pistols, or maybe the Boresight Razorback grip module will be magic on the P365XL (it should be for the price). I do feel like the P365XL has more potential than the 43x, but the tiny grip is currently holding it back for me. My 43x has all the worst attributes in the Glock trigger lottery (stacking, excessive over-travel and a very defined wall), so that's probably not helping in the performance comparison.

Do others also notice the super steep performance curve with a near plateau at the point of diminishing returns when it comes to pistol size?

[MickAK]

I think it can be difficult to relearn things if you originally got good with a G19 size pistol. Mainly grip. There are very different muscle groups in play, and it's easy enough to develop an effective grip but more difficult to maintain it at speed when your muscle memory is telling you 'X' and you need to be doing 'Y'. I think a lot of people have more trouble getting the trigger finger moving independently with thinner/smaller grips.

I think a lot of subcompacts strive to be lighter than they really need to be. The PPS is notably heavier than most of the newer comparable size pistols but I don't see that as a drawback. I don't care how easy it is to carry if I can't shoot it effectively. It's not that much weight.

[Clusterfrack]

I carry a P-07 because I can shoot it nearly as well as a Shadow2. I cannot shoot a Glock 43 that well. Grip is very important.

[TheNewbie]

I carry a P-07 because I can shoot it nearly as well as a Shadow2. I cannot shoot a Glock 43 that well. Grip is very important.

I shot a P-07 in a class recently. They really are easy to shoot guns after a little practice.


If they came from the factory with just slightly better DA triggers, and maybe
a couple of other minor changes, then they might be the best option on the market. I do wish LTT worked on CZs.

[Lon]

I’ve had many of the slimline 9mm options - Kahr (multiple), G43, G48 and Walther PPSM2. The only one that I came close to running as well as a G19 was the PPS. Nowadays, I’m running some form or MRDS’d G26 or 19 for everything - work, off duty and competition.

[Lon]

I carry a P-07 because I can shoot it nearly as well as a Shadow2. I cannot shoot a Glock 43 that well. Grip is very important.

The P07 is one of the best guns of the G19 size, IMHO.

[Chuck Whitlock]

Do others also notice the super steep performance curve with a near plateau at the point of diminishing returns when it comes to pistol size?

Yes. But.....the bell curve works differently for different people.

I carry a P-07 because I can shoot it nearly as well as a Shadow2. I cannot shoot a Glock 43 that well. Grip is very important.

I shot a P-07 in a class recently. They really are easy to shoot guns after a little practice.

Fit is very important.

After all the praise for the P-07 here, I had to coon-finger one when I ran across it in an LGS. My thumb was not long enough to reliably actuate the decocker.
Mind you, on a Gen3 Glock, the pad of my index finger in register rides on the take-down lever. The tip of my trigger finger only barely protrudes beyond the front of the trigger guard....on most any service pistol. And not so much more on smaller weapons, either. So, while I can still operate a Gen3 Glock fairly, a smaller grip circumference and trigger reach are more optimal for me.....YMMV

* I feel like a lot of folks here harp on how difficult the small guns are for them to manipulate. For some people, the opposite is true. Maybe I'm being a little over sensitive about it.

[CarloMNL]

Like a lot of people, increased work from home last year made me a bit lazier when it came to carrying a "real" pistol. I started off with a G48, but, trying to live my best dot life, I picked up a P365 XL and 43X MOS. They're better shooters than I ever thought a 9mm of this size could be, but the shooting performance difference between this size of pistol and a G19 is still quite substantial.

After shooting these little pistols almost exclusively, I recently started shooting USPSA again with a G19/H407 in Carry Optics. The performance difference is stark. I actually thought my gun was broken on my first shot/first stage this weekend because of how slow I perceived the slide moving in comparison the the P365XL or 43x.

I've been working with a G43X since May. Haven't had a ton of free time for range visits but so far, I'm at the 800 round mark. Not a lot but am starting to get a better idea of how to shoot it. I have no issue making single hits from draw or ready at 7 yards, and can now punch the "A" out of the center of an IPSC Classic Board. Trying to go for pairs, I find the slide returns to battery really fast but my second shot comes in slow and a little low. I think it is a mix of grip and trigger control issues given my limited round count.

When I worked with my G17 after shooting the 43X, my experience mirrors yours.

I also find claims that a G48/43x with the Shield Arms mags makes a G19 obsolete to be very wrong. If you only value capacity and size, maybe, but there are very real tradeoffs in shooting performance.

I agree. Plus I've not had the best luck with aftermarket mags in Glocks, even the Magpul PMags. Adding another variable in a micro 9 with an already narrow window of reliability is not something I am willing to risk .

Maybe I just suck at shooting skinny-gripped pistols. My 43x has all the worst attributes in the Glock trigger lottery (stacking, excessive over-travel and a very defined wall), so that's probably not helping in the performance comparison.

The skinny grip makes the gun so easy to carry but from what I've seen very unforgiving when it comes to the shooting bit. I knew this coming in and got the gun more because not all my clients are tolerant of guns so the added concealability is worth the loss in shoot ability (for me.) The one I have is a railed non-MOS model that came with the Minus connector. It broke in nicely after about 500 rounds and a lot of dry presses. Not the lightest factory Glock trigger I have felt but clean. Still, the learning curve here is a LOT steeper for me than it was with a G17.

[joshs]

I carry a P-07 because I can shoot it nearly as well as a Shadow2. I cannot shoot a Glock 43 that well. Grip is very important.

Just to be clear, while I was talking about the G19, I've noticed the same thing with the P229, S&W M&P, P30, PX4 Compact, and P01. They've all shot so similar to the larger pistols that any difference is pretty much lost in the noise of my own performance variation.

[TheNewbie]

Yes. But.....the bell curve works differently for different people.





Fit is very important.

After all the praise for the P-07 here, I had to coon-finger one when I ran across it in an LGS. My thumb was not long enough to reliably actuate the decocker.
Mind you, on a Gen3 Glock, the pad of my index finger in register rides on the take-down lever. The tip of my trigger finger only barely protrudes beyond the front of the trigger guard....on most any service pistol. And not so much more on smaller weapons, either. So, while I can still operate a Gen3 Glock fairly, a smaller grip circumference and trigger reach are more optimal for me.....YMMV

* I feel like a lot of folks here harp on how difficult the small guns are for them to manipulate. For some people, the opposite is true. Maybe I'm being a little over sensitive about it.

I decock with my off hand, otherwise I have to shift the P-07 more dramatically.