Great Shotgun vs AR talk...

[Phaedrus]

Who mentioned anything about loading any gun with only a single round?

In point of fact, you did:

If you’re counting on your chosen 5.56 defensive load to reliably physiologically incapacitate determined adversaries in one or two shots, I highly recommend you research terminal ballistics a little more.

Combing through my posts I see nothing that indicates I ever claimed that one round of 5.56 ammo would always do the job. Presumably you were just creating a straw man or maybe you simply misunderstood me? My research of wound ballistics is pretty extensive although I'm not an expert in the field, just an amateur. I've probably read the same things you have (although you may have professional connections that I don't, affording access to material that's not been published). Nothing I've seen published nor anything I've seen in the field back when I hunted regularly would ever lead me to expect a one-shot incapacitation. This includes big bore dangerous game rifles, shotguns with buckshot and heavy shotgun slugs.

If we're still trying to discuss the OP, I wonder if it's the only video you've watched by Rhett? I have long followed him. He's a wizard with many kinds of guns and very innovative, and I'd love to take a class from him. He also has a habit of staking out positions in one video only to advocate the exact opposite in another. It's sometimes hard to know what he believes and how much stuff he says just to draw views.

[Phaedrus]

To help understand your perspective, do you have much hunting experience?

Quite extensive, but all dated. I hunted for 30 years buthaven't fired a shot at an animal in many years. I grew up in the sticks and everyone hunted, so I started about the time I could walk. However, my dad passed ten summers back, and after he did I lost all interest in hunting. It just won't be the same without him. Although my buddy has been trying to get me to get bear tags with him, and I have never drawn an Elk tag so if anything was to get me back out there it might be that.

[Phaedrus]

GRRR! Having trouble with lags in the forum software, sorry! It's uncertain just what I'll be able to shoot pending resolution of my surgery. My right shoulder was wrecked in a fall and surgically repaired in early April. The surgeon and my PT guy doesn't think it's safe to start back with the shotgun just yet, and I am getting the sense that my use of the arm is going to be more limited than I had hoped. Down the road the shoulder may need replacement and then I might have more mobility and strength. My PT team thinks I will probably be able to shoot my Beretta before the end of the year. The problem is that my arm was dislocated out the back, taking about 30% of the bone out as it went. So certain things (bench press, pushups, heavy recoil, etc) run the risk of dislocating the shoulder again. The docs are encouraging me to get back out hiking again (one of my main passions outside of shooting) and it's safe to use trekking poles, etc. But it's unclear what my physical limitations will be. That's one thing that has me intrigues about Rhett's technique. It might be that putting a bird's-head grip on the 1301 might move the shock out of the shoulder and into the springs/arms in a way that will let me do a bit more.

[WobblyPossum]

In point of fact, you did:

Combing through my posts I see nothing that indicates I ever claimed that one round of 5.56 ammo would always do the job. Presumably you were just creating a straw man or maybe you simply misunderstood me?

I didn’t create any straw men here. I was specifically referring to this statement from your initial post:

Never have I heard a credible source indicate that it takes on the average three to five rounds of modern, duty-type ammo from an AR to incapacitate a person! I can't imagine anyone absorbing that many 115gr HP/SP .300 Blackout rounds nor Mk262 5.56 rounds before being out of the fight.

If you can’t imagine someone taking that many (3-5) rounds before they’re out of the fight, then you’re expecting the fight to end in 1-2 rounds per person, right? That’s the logical inference from the context of that statement.

My research of wound ballistics is pretty extensive although I'm not an expert in the field, just an amateur. I've probably read the same things you have (although you may have professional connections that I don't, affording access to material that's not been published). Nothing I've seen published nor anything I've seen in the field back when I hunted regularly would ever lead me to expect a one-shot incapacitation. This includes big bore dangerous game rifles, shotguns with buckshot and heavy shotgun slugs.

With the knowledge and experience you’re coming into the discussion with, why is it so hard to imagine someone still being in the fight after taking 3-5 modern rifle rounds?

If we're still trying to discuss the OP, I wonder if it's the only video you've watched by Rhett? I have long followed him. He's a wizard with many kinds of guns and very innovative, and I'd love to take a class from him. He also has a habit of staking out positions in one video only to advocate the exact opposite in another. It's sometimes hard to know what he believes and how much stuff he says just to draw views.

I’ve watched most of the videos on Rhett’s YouTube channel but wouldn’t say I’ve been following him for long. Personally I’m more interested in his work with the Phlster Enigma than the cheek pistol/shotgun stuff. I didn’t find anything he said in this video to be really out there, I just happen to have come to different conclusions in that I don’t think the cheek shotgun is an awesome defensive firearm for the average person. Then again, I’ve never messed around with a cheek shotgun or a cheek pistol.

[Phaedrus]

With the knowledge and experience you’re coming into the discussion with, why is it so hard to imagine someone still being in the fight after taking 3-5 modern rifle rounds?

Because it's vanishingly rare. It can happen, and if I stated it was "impossible" then clearly I misspoke. Certainly it's possible to take five rounds of 00 buckshot and still be in the fight, humans are resilient. Are we still arguing? I'm not sure what if any position you actually hold. What do you want me to say to make everything better for you? I'm not trying to upset you at all.

[WobblyPossum]

Because it's vanishingly rare. It can happen, and if I stated it was "impossible" then clearly I misspoke. Certainly it's possible to take five rounds of 00 buckshot and still be in the fight, humans are resilient. Are we still arguing? I'm not sure what if any position you actually hold. What do you want me to say to make everything better for you? I'm not trying to upset you at all.

I didn’t think we were arguing to begin with, I thought we were having a discussion. I thought my point was pretty clear from my first two posts on this topic. I seem to be frustrating you so I’ll just bow out of this thread.

[Phaedrus]

I guess it's kind of frustrating trying to figure out what you're trying to say. No need to bow out unless you don't really have a point to make. Circling back to actual subject of the video, a comparison can be made between a shotgun and an AR for a variety of purposes. A single round of 12ga 00 buck is more effective than a single round ____________, that's the point Rhett seems to be making and possibly your assertion? I don't want to put words in anyone's mouth. I agree that against a soft/unarmored target a single round of buckshot can be more effective at least at certain ranges and in some circumstances. Of course there's a lot more factors involved in choosing a weapon than just terminal ballistics. Presumably Rhett knows that and probably you do, too.

Thankfully I have never shot a human being! Hopefully it will stay that way. I've seen a single round just about everything not crew served fail, including 12ga buck, 12ga slugs, and various rounds from 6mm on up to .338 Win Mag so I never take it for granted that one round is enough. By fail I don't mean failing to kill, just failing to do it in a timely fashion.

[breakingtime91]

I love shot guns and what they bring to the table. With that said my background with carbines have swung me back that direction. I just know how to handle a carbine in combat and not enough time or money to get to that skill set with a shot gun. I still think within 30 yards a slug or flight control buckshot is quite persuasive

[03RN]

I know he's involved in medicine in some capacity so he likely has good knowledge of wounding, BUT I take great issue with assessment of the various rounds. Never have I heard a credible source indicate that it takes on the average three to five rounds of modern, duty-type ammo from an AR to incapacitate a person! I can't imagine anyone absorbing that many 115gr HP/SP .300 Blackout rounds nor Mk262 5.56 rounds before being out of the fight. Plus, he's a strong advocate of .22LR for CCW so I don't even understand where he's coming from when he discusses gunfighting. Love the guy, though! He's obviously immensely skilled and a real innovator from a technique perspective.

Just because you can't imagine something, doesn't mean we haven't seen it.

[Phaedrus]

Just because you can't imagine something, doesn't mean we haven't seen it.

Which one was he shot with, 77gr OTM or 110gr .300 Blackout?