Great Shotgun vs AR talk...

[xtrtsqrt11]

My reasons for having my 870 as my primary HD long gun are these:

I have my HD G20 with X300 light in the quick access lock box for initial bump in the night and then assessing as to whether I need to take more time to access my long gun(s).

My wife grew up around Pump action shotguns and is reasonably comfortable with working them. I keep it chamber empty and safety off so that she only has to work the slide and she's off to the races. It's LOP is shortened so that she can make it work pretty easily. She is not familiar with ARs and is not really interested in taking the time to retrain.

As has been mentioned in this thread a few times, 5-7 rounds of 5.56 is not a bad idea to plan on needing per threat. When you talk about that kind of ratio, a 30 mag gets used up fairly quickly. Starts to put the 12 gauge being closer to as being able to serve as many threats as generally fewer rounds are needed with solid hits. Yes, I know, there are always exceptions to any generality, but 12 gauge usually does a pretty good job.

I'd also rather have my 870 involved in an investigation and the subsequent loss of said firearm until it's return, than my M4. If I was to have to use my 870 in an initial event, who's to say someone might take issue with me and seek out revenge and then I think having my M4 available would be advantageous.

I like being able to go from limited penetration #4 buck first round, then 00 for most of the remainder (mag tube + side saddle), then a couple rounds of slugs. This gives me quite a few options depending on the situation.

I need to get me a patrol bandolier like what Eagle used to make IIRC. It had loops for 12ish rounds and a couple pistol mags. Nice to stage along with the noise dampening electronic ear pro.

[Caballoflaco]

Body armor on badguys does happen, even if you’re crazy to prepare for that. Also, two carloads of badguys does happen. Getting lit up for trying to stop people breaking into cars has gotten a couple of people, including a Cop killed here in the last few years since car burglars almost always have guns, because idiots store guns in cars.

ETA: It doesn’t matter if you’re using a carbine or a shotgun if you start getting shot at by the guys in the second car that you didn’t see.

[Bio]

Body armor on badguys does happen, even if you’re crazy to prepare for that. Also, two carloads of badguys does happen. Getting lit up for trying to stop people breaking into cars has gotten a couple of people, including a Cop killed here in the last few years since car burglars almost always have guns, because idiots store guns in cars.

ETA: It doesn’t matter if you’re using a carbine or a shotgun if you start getting shot at by the guys in the second car that you didn’t see.

I live in a decent neighborhood, and a local community officer puts out a weekly crime report, which is almost entirely shoplifting from nearby stores, catalytic converter thefts, and crooks stealing stuff from unlocked cars. Every couple months, there's a report that one of the things stolen from an unlocked car is a handgun. It's dumbfounding.

[LHS]

SMH

I saw that on my YT feed and thought "Tell me you don't know how to run a gauge without telling me you don't know how to run a gauge."

[Edster]

The “Racking the shotgun will scare the bad guy away” thing is now starting to be challenged by “Racking the shotgun gives away your position.”

You know what other things “give away your position?”

Chambering a round in your rifle
Chambering a round in your handgun
Opening a lockbox or safe
Turning on a light
Saying, “Honey, did you hear something?
A door squeaking
A floor creaking
Your dog barking
Calling the police
Announcing you are armed, the police are coming, and whoever is in the house should identify themselves or leave

[GearFondler]

I saw that on my YT feed and thought "Tell me you don't know how to run a gauge without telling me you don't know how to run a gauge."

Indeed... That video was hot garbage and full of both hypocrisy and ignorance.
- He demonstrates the slowest possible way to reload short of fishing the shells out of box stored under the bed.
- He bemoans the 18" barrel due to the NFA but then touts his PCC which is a 2 stamp solution. - - He also implies that somehow the 18" barrel is a detriment to room clearing by an untrained user whereas a 16" barrel would be acceptable.
- He completely ignores the extended ranges that Flight Control allows.
- He claims untrained people will probably fuck up the operation and load selection as if that only applies to a shotgun.
- He explains how the shotgun is so popular due to its broad application range but then claims it's a niche weapon... Make up your mind, douchebag!
Click-bait horseshit pot-stirring garbage sauce.

[HCM]

Body armor on badguys does happen, even if you’re crazy to prepare for that. Also, two carloads of badguys does happen. Getting lit up for trying to stop people breaking into cars has gotten a couple of people, including a Cop killed here in the last few years since car burglars almost always have guns, because idiots store guns in cars.

ETA: It doesn’t matter if you’re using a carbine or a shotgun if you start getting shot at by the guys in the second car that you didn’t see.

I live in a decent neighborhood, and a local community officer puts out a weekly crime report, which is almost entirely shoplifting from nearby stores, catalytic converter thefts, and crooks stealing stuff from unlocked cars. Every couple months, there's a report that one of the things stolen from an unlocked car is a handgun. It's dumbfounding.

I'd bet the body armor the suspect was wearing was stolen out of a vehicle as well.

[mmc45414]

I'd not be wanting to grab the barrel of my gauge no matter how long it is.

Didn't make it all the way through the video yet. I am old and weak and not very big and not formally trained with a shotgun but somebody being able to grab a shotgun that I am holding with two hands and taking it away from me from the muzzle end and me not being able to shoot them in the process is pretty far down on my worry list.

Apparently autoloader reliability was mentioned later in the video. This is where I will take comfort in personal experience. I have probably over 10k (maybe flawless) rounds through my Beretta 391. I bought a new 1301 that works the same way, so... I think this is just like my comfort with the 1911, I am sure I have over a hundred thousand personal experiences supporting my comfort level.

Another vote for Clickbait. Damnit, I clicked!!!

[Navin Johnson]

So....... With modern soft points or full copper hollow point whatever's...... A 30 round AR mag is only good for four people?

Seriously 5 to 7 rounds per person??

[Unobtanium]

So....... With modern soft points or full copper hollow point whatever's...... A 30 round AR mag is only good for four people?

Seriously 5 to 7 rounds per person??

Killing someone and stopping someone are not mutually exclusive. A shotgun with the proper ammunition at the proper distance is going go create much more blood loss than a 5.56. Either will disrupt the CNS, in which case this goes out the window. Short of CNS disruption, blood loss is the only way (not counting skeletal dismemberment or disruption, as with breaking down large game, but people have firearms and breaking them down may or may not win the fight and stop their actions of consequence. )