The reason that I eschew butt cuffs is simply that they pretty much negate using the shotgun support side. I like to have the option of transitioning shoulders dependent on what flavor corner I'm approaching.Originally Posted by TCinVA
The reason that I eschew butt cuffs is simply that they pretty much negate using the shotgun support side. I like to have the option of transitioning shoulders dependent on what flavor corner I'm approaching.
Adding nothing to the conversation since 2015....
Innuendo intentional
So as not to muck up the 1301 thread further…
What’s the accepted way to load a shotgun from a side-saddle?
What about from a butt cuff?
what are the relative costs/be edits of each as they relate to each other?
Does “maintain a firing grip” rear it’s head here? Does it matter?
Does the above offend? If you have paid to be here, you can click here to put it in context.
I’m with Dan, any long gun I own needs to be usable from either shoulder all the time. Corners or cover is one reason, but the main one is that I simply enjoy practicing and using long guns both strong and weak handed.
I agree with @Dan Lehr and @Caballoflaco. I don't like things attached to the gun that limit easy transition and can snag. I have an extra 5-shell card filled with the same 2-slug/3-buck as is on the gun. I'm thinking I can put that in a pocket for spare ammo.
“There is no growth in the comfort zone.”--Jocko Willink
"You can never have too many knives." --Joe Ambercrombie
This is my personal experience. I'm always open to education. My class experience is totally loading with the weak hand while maintaining a firing grip. My practice however has led me to reject that in most cases. Here's why.
- Most of a shotgun's weight is forward of the receiver and therefore, there may be issues with wrist strength in holding the shotgun with the firing hand ready to go while accessing shells from a sidesaddle or anywhere else. But this is the least of the reasons.
- Why and when are you loading? Either you are still actively in a fight and have run dry, or it is a lull, no one to shoot at that moment and you are replenishing the magazine and topping it off. In the first situation, your goal is to get one more round in the gun and hopefully finish the fight then and there. In this situation, I agree with keeping a firing grip, getting a shell from wherever is quickest, dropping it in the ejection port (for most shotguns) and closing the action with either a bolt release or running the slide forward and immediately engaging the target. I haven't used a match-saver but it seems the fastest, with the drawback of more bulk. Because I've never used one, I'll leave it to those who have to comment on their value. If you have a lull in the fight, no targets who need to be engaged, the goal is to get the gun topped off as fast as possible. My preferred method is to retain control of shotgun by keeping my left hand on the forend (I'm right handed), rotate the gun 90 deg to the left and put the left side of the buttstock on top of my right shoulder. That is the fastest way I can get shells from the buttstock, side saddle, vest, pouch, etc. and into the magazine. If a threat suddenly emerges midstream, I can push the gun forward with my left hand on the forend while rotating it, acquire a shooting grip with the right hand and butt in the shoulder. If loading with the support hand, it may be as fast from a side saddle, maybe as fast from a vest or pouch, but for me, no. Responding to an emerging threat is no faster, you still need to acquire a grip with the support hand.
- Side saddle or butt cuff, shell base up or down? For me, if your shell "loops" will still retain them under recoil, movement, etc., shell base down. I've used hard side saddles with rubber for tensioning, leather butt cuffs and butt cuffs with nylon loops. All of them lose tension pretty quickly, especially in storage. As a result, if they are base down, recoil will cause the shells to start sliding down and eventually (maybe even immediately!) fall out. The only product with which I have experience that will retain them with the base down are the ESSTAC shell cards. Other quality shell cards may too. Using my previously described loading method from the side saddle, I can reach up under the left side of the receiver, push the top of the shell with my middle finger, grasp the base and pull it free, and immediately insert it into the magazine. Same for a shell card on the right side of the buttstock except of course, I'm not reaching under the butt. I have a vest for classes or if I'm using the shotgun and I've had time to prepare. Shells are in loops in pouches on the right side, and 3 6-shell cards are in 3 vertical pouches on the left side. My opinion is that if you are grabbing a shotgun for a sudden emergency defense situation, you probably don't have time to grab anything else, especially a vest, pouch, etc. If it's the middle of the night, I'm buck naked, so no handgun either. If I'm wearing the vest and quickly need to "refill" the cards, I'm just pulling off the empty card and slapping on a full one.
I don't have a ton of experience or training with a shotgun so take my advice for what it is worth.
I find loading an emergency/empty gun shell to be easiest with the support hand coming over the top of the gun from shells carried brass up on the receiver (I've never tried a butt cuff, but have a hard time imagining it being quicker).
For loading the tube, I'm working on it with support hand loads but currently find it easiest to load with my strong hand under the gun from brass down shells.
Regarding shells being retained brass down, the Aridus QDC has no trouble holding them tight. So far my Vang cards are also working great and don't drop shells under recoil, but I don't have enough time with them to tell if prolonged use/storage will cause them to loosen up too much.
Regarding the op by @rob_s while I'm not a fan of open ejection port loading on Remington 870s (yet I will with my 1301), the gentleman lays out his position reasonably well. One thing I'm consciously trying these days is loading with the strong hand and keeping the weak/support hand on the forearm.
If you are in your house, you know where they are, right? Work with the light on the baseboards or umbrella light and you aren't likely to hit the pictures or windows.
Fwiw, I want as much useable, projected light as I can get in any situation where I'm having to make Don't Shoot/Shoot decisions.
As Erick says, working with the light in High Port or low ready, and thus using the umbrella technique or working the baseboards, the the proper way to work with a light. A high lumen light shines here (pun intended).
We're also moving towards the "violin load" in our shotgun training.....for many reasons. Just not convinced by the whole "maintain your firing grip" necessity when reloading a shotgun. Get it done quickly and efficiently, however you can do that.
some of you may find this silly but it worked for me when all I had access to was a 4 shot 870 and a box of shells in the glove box (plus the 686 and 18 rounds total) (patrol rifles in the unit had not taken off in the dept I work for till 2003)
In the early 90s, I bought me a shotgun butt cuff with intentions of sliding it on a duty shotty and at 42, put it in my bag. Messing around with the butt cuff, it would slide snug on my forearm (I worked out heavy back then).
So my butt cuff was now a forearm cuff and if I took my shotty out on a call, I slid the butt cuff on my arm with 5 extra shots if I needed them.
so if you need some extra rounds that would be handy.... you pick the arm that works best for your load technique and prior to grabbing the shotty... slip on a butt cuff.
if too sloppy on the arm, break out the sewing machine to tighten it up a bit.
I am going to buy me a butt cuff and keep it near my 1301.
If you're going to be a bear….be a GRIZZLY!
Given the versatility of the shotgun, the different possible loads, and different missions, it is not surprising that there are a wide variety of spare ammo plans.
Around bears, since I have an empty chamber with a slug floated on the carrier, I keep an extra slug in my left front pocket so I can quickly top the shotgun off to full capacity. I typically stick a Velcro card of slugs in a back pocket because...
My standard outdoors rig has two pistol and one AR taco. This gives me flexibility to choose between light, leatherman and, pistol mags in the pistol tacos, and an AR mag or shogun Velcro card in the AR taco.
Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.
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