How to find your Red Dot - Going Tactical with Mike Seeklander

[GearFondler]

Could you expand on this a bit? I heard something similar and phrased slightly different and didn't have a chance to ask a question. This looks like a gem of info and I don't want to walk by without picking it up.

With irons-only they sit there high and proud on top of the slide and as you press out your eyes can easily see them and allow your hands to make the needed adjustments to have the pistol basically on target at the end of the draw.
With an RDS, the sights and even the slide itself can be obscured on the draw, preventing those subconscious adjustments that you didn't even realize you were making.

[HCM]

With irons-only they sit there high and proud on top of the slide and as you press out your eyes can easily see them and allow your hands to make the needed adjustments to have the pistol basically on target at the end of the draw.
With an RDS, the sights and even the slide itself can be obscured on the draw, preventing those subconscious adjustments that you didn't even realize you were making.

This plus we think of "peripheral vision' in terms of the horizontal plane but our peripheral vison includes the vertical plane as well.

Also you can see your sights from above and can track them subconsciously as they come up into your line of sight and eventually into alignment giving you a "head start" vs the dot. You can see the optic similarly but not the dot itself which is only acquired in the last stage of the presentation. Thus most of the presentation of the dot requires you present "by faith not by sight" to steal a phrase from church going folks. You can call it proprioception if you went to college ;-0

[GearFondler]

This plus we think of "peripheral vision' in terms of the horizontal plane but our peripheral vison includes the vertical plane as well.

Also you can see your sights from above and can track them subconsciously as they come up into your line of sight and eventually into alignment giving you a "head start" vs the dot. You can see the optic similarly but not the dot itself which is only acquired in the last stage of the presentation. Thus most of the presentation of the dot requires you present "by faith not by sight" to steal a phrase from church going folks. You can call it proprioception if you went to college ;-0

Exactly ... You further explained what I meant. As soon as the gun (and irons) enters your field of vision from below your hands will start making adjustments even without conscious thought, with the end result being a gun pointed at the target with sights properly aligned.
With an RDS, not so much... You have to train your body to put the pistol where you want it.

[Clusterfrack]

Yes, using the BUIS to find the dot is poor practice. It is less efficient than irons alone.

One of the advantages of PMO (or any optic) is it is a single plane sighting system - you focus on one thing: the target.

Irons are a three focal plane sighting system- you have to focus on / accommodate for the front sight, rear sight and target.

When you use irons to find the dot you are turning a single focal plane sighting system into a four focal plane sighting system.

Excellent explanation.

Iron sights can be used as a single plane, target focused system—to great advantage.

[HCM]

Excellent explanation.

Iron sights can be used as a single plane, target focused system—to great advantage.

Yes, eventually.

The dot is simply a quicker and easier way to get there.

[GearFondler]

Yes, eventually.

The dot is simply a quicker and easier way to get there.

I'm going to talk out of my ass here, so fair warning, but with my very short dabbling with the technique I "think" it is easier to master if one has already mastered using a dot.
I say think because I never tried it with irons before going to the dot but I can't imagine I would have found it easy to accomplish without already having the target focus and better presentation that using a dot gave me. Now when I occasionally shoot irons-only I find myself instinctualy using a target focus unless I consciously force myself to front sight focus. I haven't done it enough at speed to know whether I'm really any good at it or not, but I carry dots so I focus on dots.

[JCS]

People over complicate learning the dot. It’s really not difficult. All the tips and tricks may be useful for a complete beginner but there’s no substitute for repetitions. You don’t need a red dot class just lots of dry reps. The greatest tool we have is our brains.

[CCT125US]

The greatest tool we have is our brains.

Amen.

Lost count of how many new shooters show up to shoot a match with the latest and greatest red dot. Upon presentation they do the red dot shimmy and shake in order to find the dot. From 10 yards away you see the gun is nowhere near alignment. Next transition, slightly better, 3rd, getting the hang of it, 4th, there you go.

It takes same time, but you *"don't have to sit at the feet of a master"....

*Stolen from Stoeger I think.

[EVP]

Totally agree with JCS and CCT125US

I have been playing with red dots for a little while. The first time I mounted the dot and worked on draws, I wondered why people made it a bigger deal then it is. I had no problem finding the dot.

A few times when pushing speed and drawing SHO I could lose the dot. But that is the great thing with the dot is that you can see what you are doing and make corrective changes.

I feel the dot is a lot more intuitive and is excellent in showing you your sloppiness and you being able to self correct as many here have said already.

If a person just uses their head they can figure it out.

[Clusterfrack]

At matches, I see people searching for their dot a lot when in unconventional positions: leans, low ports, WHO, lateral movement, etc. I don’t think it is a trivial problem to solve. Developing a robust index (automatic sight alignment) on demand when not static and squared up to the target requires a lot of practice. I don’t see many people “getting it” in just a few matches.