NYSRPA v. Bruen Oral Argument

[RoyGBiv]

I suspect the language in this footnote would allow State A to say we have room to establish our particular standards for determining whether a resident is a sufficiently law abiding, responsible citizen; if State B’s standards aren’t as rigorous we have no obligation to be bound by what State B determines.

But I could very well be wrong. Could the full faith and credit clause come into play? I’m guessing no, but I haven’t dug into it. In another context, could State A make it illegal to drive in State A with a valid license from State B if State B doesn’t require a written test?

Illinois already does this....

https://handgunlaw.us/states/illinois.pdf (PDF will open)

Non-Resident Permit
NON-RESIDENTS
In accordance with 430 ILCS 66/40 (b), out of state residents may be eligible for an Illinois Concealed Carry
License if your state meets the definition of substantially similar as established by rule. See 20 Il. Admin.
Code 1231.10.

Currently, the states identified below have been determined to have laws related to firearm
ownership, possession, and carrying that are substantially similar to the requirements to obtain a license
under Illinois’ law; and, therefore, may apply for an Concealed Carry License. This list will be updated as
additional states are identified as substantially similar. Further Information concerning the regulations for
non-resident applications can be found at 20 Il. Admin. Code 1231.110.

1.Arkansas2.Idaho3.Mississippi4.Nevada5.Texas6.Virginia
You can see the Illinois State Police Listing of these states and the Criteria they useHere.

Note:Only residents of the states listed above have been approved by the Illinois State Police to apply for
an Illinois Non-Resident Permit.

[OlongJohnson]

Illinois already does this....

https://handgunlaw.us/states/illinois.pdf (PDF will open)

1.Arkansas2.Idaho3.Mississippi4.Nevada5.Texas6.Virginia

That's interesting, I didn't know TX was on the potential list there. Note that it's not full reciprocity, though. A TX LTC is not actually valid, you're just eligible to apply for an IL permit.

My understanding is that TX reciprocity has essentially two components:
1. The other state's requirements need to be comparable or more stringent than TX's requirements.
2. The other state has to be willing to recognize a TX LTC.

So even though a state may have more stringent requirements (CA, etc.) than TX, TX won't recognize their permits if they don't recognize TX LTCs. And many other states are the same way. TX doesn't have a reciprocity agreement with WA, for example. TX requirements are greater than WA requirements, so in principle WA would recognize a TX LTC, but WA doesn't have a class or skills demonstration requirement, so TX doesn't recognize a WA CPL and WA does not recognize a TX LTC.

[revchuck38]

I suspect the language in this footnote would allow State A to say we have room to establish our particular standards for determining whether a resident is a sufficiently law abiding, responsible citizen; if State B’s standards aren’t as rigorous we have no obligation to be bound by what State B determines.

NM revoked its reciprocity with LA because they said our marksmanship qual didn't meet their standards.

[Kanye Wyoming]

NM revoked its reciprocity with LA because they said our marksmanship qual didn't meet their standards.

They may have a point. New Mexico has pretty high standards.

[5pins]

could State A make it illegal to drive in State A with a valid license from State B if State B doesn’t require a written test?

Yes, driver licenses reciprocity is covered under an agreement among the states through the American Association of Motor Vehicle Administrators. It covers all the requirements for each state that is in the agreement. Not all states participate.

[RoyGBiv]

That's interesting, I didn't know TX was on the potential list there. Note that it's not full reciprocity, though. A TX LTC is not actually valid, you're just eligible to apply for an IL permit.

My understanding is that TX reciprocity has essentially two components:
1. The other state's requirements need to be comparable or more stringent than TX's requirements.
2. The other state has to be willing to recognize a TX LTC.

So even though a state may have more stringent requirements (CA, etc.) than TX, TX won't recognize their permits if they don't recognize TX LTCs. And many other states are the same way. TX doesn't have a reciprocity agreement with WA, for example. TX requirements are greater than WA requirements, so in principle WA would recognize a TX LTC, but WA doesn't have a class or skills demonstration requirement, so TX doesn't recognize a WA CPL and WA does not recognize a TX LTC.

I'm fairly certain that Texas recognizes all other state permits, including non resident permits held by non residents of the state issuing the permit.

I'm less certain (but still fairly certain ) that the Illinois recognition of a Texas permit as qualifying for the permit holder to apply for an Illinois permit has to do with the requirements of obtaining a Texas permit.

ETA.... Correcting myself... Texas honors all permits where a background check is required to obtain the permit.
We honor NY, CA, WA..... But not VT, etc.

[CleverNickname]

Yes, driver licenses reciprocity is covered under an agreement among the states through the American Association of Motor Vehicle Administrators. It covers all the requirements for each state that is in the agreement. Not all states participate.

So where is it illegal to drive in State A with a driver's license from State B?

That's interesting, I didn't know TX was on the potential list there. Note that it's not full reciprocity, though. A TX LTC is not actually valid, you're just eligible to apply for an IL permit.

My understanding is that TX reciprocity has essentially two components:
1. The other state's requirements need to be comparable or more stringent than TX's requirements.
2. The other state has to be willing to recognize a TX LTC.

So even though a state may have more stringent requirements (CA, etc.) than TX, TX won't recognize their permits if they don't recognize TX LTCs. And many other states are the same way. TX doesn't have a reciprocity agreement with WA, for example. TX requirements are greater than WA requirements, so in principle WA would recognize a TX LTC, but WA doesn't have a class or skills demonstration requirement, so TX doesn't recognize a WA CPL and WA does not recognize a TX LTC.

Texas recognizes California, Connecticut, Hawaii, Illinois, Maryland, Massachusetts, New Jersey, Rhode Island, and Washington; none of whom recognize Texas LTCs.

Washington doesn't recognize Texas because Texas issues licenses to 18-20 year olds if they're active-duty or veterans, and Washington doesn't like anyone under 21. I'm guessing they think it's too difficult or something for Washington LE to look at the birthday on a license to see if the licensee is 21+ and therefore legal to carry in Washington. It's annoying because I've had a Washington license for almost 20 years now, and therefore I need to time my visits there to match up with renewals, since they don't do mail-in renewals.

I will note that Washington does recognize Idaho enhanced licenses (21+ only) and doesn't recognize Idaho standard licenses (18+), so apparently if it's a legally distinct license from the same state, then that satisfies them. Last I checked there's two or three other states that don't recognize Texas LTCs for the same reason, so the Texas Legislature could fix the issue with those states by tweaking our laws a bit to make 18-20 LTCs different from 21+ LTCs.

[CleverNickname]

We honor NY, CA, WA..... But not VT, etc.

Fun fact, no one honors VT permits. Not even VT.

[idahojess]

Washington doesn't recognize Texas because Texas issues licenses to 18-20 year olds if they're active-duty or veterans, and Washington doesn't like anyone under 21. I'm guessing they think it's too difficult or something for Washington LE to look at the birthday on a license to see if the licensee is 21+ and therefore legal to carry in Washington. It's annoying because I've had a Washington license for almost 20 years now, and therefore I need to time my visits there to match up with renewals, since they don't do mail-in renewals.

Some Washington counties are doing online renewals (not sure about transferring from one county or city to another...)

https://snohomishwa.permitium.com/ccw/start


Another option would get be to get a Utah license. I live in Washington and have a Utah permit -- very easy to deal with and renew. I do believe that Utah is good in WA.

[CleverNickname]

Some Washington counties are doing online renewals (not sure about transferring from one county or city to another...)

https://snohomishwa.permitium.com/ccw/start

Another option would get be to get a Utah license. I live in Washington and have a Utah permit -- very easy to deal with and renew. I do believe that Utah is good in WA.

Thanks. My permit is from Snohomish, so I'll probably be using that link next year when my license expires. A non-resident Utah permit was my backup plan, but that would've meant taking a class from a Utah-licensed instructor, which is another annoyance.

What would really be nice is a way to get a non-resident Idaho enhanced permit by mail, because I'd get Minnesota in addition to Washington. AFAIK that's not possible though.