CCW Tips - oh well.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

So I'm bored and one of my gun feeds comes up with yet another set of tips for the concealed carrier. This guy had two which caught my mind out of some reasonable ones.

1. Don't wear a shoot me first CCW, fisherman's vest! Yes, I have heard this many times and don't. When I wear a vest it is to keep me warm - fleece or puffy. The CCW vest was for IDPA matches. Yes, I did wear it home.

However, is there ever been a real report of a robbery, rampage or whatever. where the CCW vest wearer was deliberately shot first?

2. The guy says carry the best round with the best energy dump!

With #2, I said - good for you internet guru. Buy bye. I am interested in the #1 ever happened.

[JCN]

So I'm bored and one of my gun feeds comes up with yet another set of tips for the concealed carrier. This guy had two which caught my mind out of some reasonable ones.

1. Don't wear a shoot me first CCW, fisherman's vest! Yes, I have heard this many times and don't. When I wear a vest it is to keep me warm - fleece or puffy. The CCW vest was for IDPA matches. Yes, I did wear it home.

However, is there ever been a real report of a robbery, rampage or whatever. where the CCW vest wearer was deliberately shot first?

2. The guy says carry the best round with the best energy dump!

With #2, I said - good for you internet guru. Buy bye. I am interested in the #1 ever happened.

I’m just a random civilian joe.

But I play a game and for every tactical looking dude with tactical looking gear or decals on their truck, I absolutely try and figure out if I can see their carry gun on them.

Same goes for IDPA type vests.

You might say, well… the average criminal isn’t “in the know.”

But a number of semi-high profile mass shooters have been ex-military or gun enthusiasts.

I think being the grey man is the best CCW advice.

[1Rangemaster]

Don’t know about the “CCW” vest, but there’s a horror story from years ago(Cooper, I think?) where a southern Cal LE w/his young daughter at a mall saw an armed robbery going down. He reportedly stashed his daughter back from the scene. Robbery team backup guy killed her to pull him off the guys in the store...
I was at the mall movie for “Dune” yesterday, with a mildly handicapped relative. Billions to one odds, but if mass murderer starts in theater, in open area, etc., I’ll move away from folks if at all possible, then deal. If stuff happens away from me/us, I’ll seriously consider a “tactical withdrawal” or barricading up.
Two other incidents come to mind: one, a few years back at a NW mall. “Active shooter”, confronted by concealed carrier. Carrier reportedly challenged, but did not shoot. Was shot, and died. Second, just a week or two ago, a CCW guy in a PA mall broke up a shooting in a food court, if media reports are to be believed.
Sorry-one more: few years back, off duty cop in Utah mall(Valentines Day w/new bride) contains an active shooter. He had mag in gun(1911?) and that was it. He drives shooter back into a store. Uniforms arrive and end it. Last two turned out ok. That is not always the case…

[HCM]

Don’t know about the “CCW” vest, but there’s a horror story from years ago(Cooper, I think?) where a southern Cal LE w/his young daughter at a mall saw an armed robbery going down. He reportedly stashed his daughter back from the scene. Robbery team backup guy killed her to pull him off the guys in the store...

I'm going to throw up the Bat signal for @Mas as I don't believe that is accurate and is an amalgamation of two incidents:

-In 1997 an off duty officer in So Cal got into a shooting with an armed robber in a McDonalds and a 9 year old girl was caught killed by a round fired by the robber intended for the off duty officer.

- In 1994 an off duty officer in SoCal (LA County ?) accompanied by his wife and possibly kids was killed when he confronted and engaged in a shoot out with a robber fleeing the robbery of shoe store at a strip mall.

I believe Cooper may have mis-reported a version of the latter incident but he had multiple facts wrong.

[Joe in PNG]

I would be curious to know if someone in a Shoot Me First vest was actually shot (or somehow targeted) as a prelude to some sort of armed misdoings.

[1Rangemaster]

I'm going to throw up the Bat signal for @Mas as I don't believe that is accurate and is an amalgamation of two incidents:

-In 1997 an off duty officer in So Cal got into a shooting with an armed robber in a McDonalds and a 9 year old girl was caught killed by a round fired by the robber intended for the off duty officer.

- In 1994 an off duty officer in SoCal (LA County ?) accompanied by his wife and possibly kids was killed when he confronted and engaged in a shoot out with a robber fleeing the robbery of shoe store at a strip mall.

I believe Cooper may have mis-reported a version of the latter incident but he had multiple facts wrong.

@HCM: fine by me, signal away-I would certainly appreciate clarification.
The others are fairly accurate, I believe.

[Hambo]

Vest with IDPA patch wasn't a problem for this guy.

https://www.ammoland.com/2013/10/cit...terror-attack/

[Mas]

I'm going to throw up the Bat signal for @Mas as I don't believe that is accurate and is an amalgamation of two incidents:

-In 1997 an off duty officer in So Cal got into a shooting with an armed robber in a McDonalds and a 9 year old girl was caught killed by a round fired by the robber intended for the off duty officer.

- In 1994 an off duty officer in SoCal (LA County ?) accompanied by his wife and possibly kids was killed when he confronted and engaged in a shoot out with a robber fleeing the robbery of shoe store at a strip mall.

I believe Cooper may have mis-reported a version of the latter incident but he had multiple facts wrong.

HCM, you're correct on LA County, though I don't recall the year; LASD did a training film for off duty protocols in which that was re-enacted. Their policy used to be (and hopefully still is) that officers can get copies of LASD training films by requesting them through the LASD Academy on letterhead. There may be a small fee to cover copying and postage.

The McDonalds incident was down around Barstow, and I believe you have the time period correct.

I don't recall that either involved a vest: in each case, the officer drew and announced. I'm not aware of a case where a vest resulted in an actual "shoot me first."

FWIW, I wear one often. Only cops and other shooters seem to "make" the vest. Most common question is "Going fishing?"

I almost always wear a vest when flying: all the pockets are like having another small hand-carry. Other passengers not uncommonly ask where I got the vest when they seem me pulling book, Kindle, or water bottle out of one of the pockets.

[1Rangemaster]

Thank you, sir-I stand corrected.
I will say I think the point is in a “civilian”(to include LE) context, the “grey man” approach perhaps has some benefits.
In horrific incidents like Beslan(Russian school takeover) the uniformed officer(s?) were killed first; male resistors were killed immediately. If one has to respond, bring it with everything you’ve got, methinks. It’s one reason I admire the USMC; they have a good method of instilling “mindset”-see Cooper’s “Principles of Personal Defense”.
Don’t “skyline” yourself if at all possible…

[whomever]

"Only cops and other shooters seem to "make" the vest."

That's my take on vests, and fanny packs as well. IMHE it's also true of the 'Safepacker'. Those in the know are fully aware what's going on, and the rest of the population has no idea.

The rub is that at least some crooks qualify as 'in the know', so with those crooks you get whatever advantage or disadvantage having the crook know you are probably armed gives you.